Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 04 February 2014
04 Feb 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill
I support same-sex marriage as a matter of principle. Not long after I was elected to the Parliament, I was proud to pledge my support to the equal marriage campaign. However, legislators have a responsibility to make sure that all sides of the debate are heard, that everyone’s rights are respected and that all bills undergo proper scrutiny.
That is exactly what I have tried to do as the convener of the Equal Opportunities Committee and I can say the same for my committee colleagues. Whatever our initial thoughts about the principles behind the bill, we worked together to take evidence, over several months, to produce a balanced and comprehensive report on the bill and to debate many of the amendments that have returned to the chamber in some form today. At the end of that process, having listened carefully to the different arguments that have been made, I am more convinced than ever that it is right to pass the bill and to legislate for equal marriage.
Much has been made in the debate of the state of public opinion. We have been told that the majority of respondents to the Government’s consultation opposed changing the law and that to do so would therefore be against the wishes of the Scottish people. It has even been suggested that the bill should be put to a referendum. However, I do not believe that the rights of any minority should be dependent on the will of a majority at a particular point in time. Nor do I believe that members should take a view on the bill on the basis of the way that they think the wind is blowing. We must do what we believe is right.
Nonetheless, let us take a closer look at public opinion. Professor John Curtice reminded the committee that pro forma letters and emails that are part of an organised campaign might tell us more about the structure than the state of public opinion. Opinion polls actually show that 60 to 65 per cent of the public support same-sex marriage and that is consistent with the findings of the independent Scottish social attitudes survey.
Many of the amendments that have been presented today, like those that were presented to the committee, relate to concerns about how the bill might affect people who have a traditional view of marriage. In my view, such amendments are unnecessary, because sufficient safeguards to protect the rights of those people either already exist or are provided for in the bill. The only religious or belief bodies that will solemnise a same-sex marriage and the only religious celebrants who will participate are those who want to. That is what the opt-in approach that has been taken in the bill is all about—legislating for equal marriage but securing the right of religious and belief bodies to decide whether they want to be part of it.
No prospective foster carer or adoptive parent should be refused solely on the basis of their views about same-sex marriage. The best interests of the child should come first, as they do under the law at present. Furthermore, the right to express a traditional view of marriage as being between one man and one woman is already protected by our freedom of expression; it does not require a specific mention in the bill.
There is one amendment that was withdrawn during stage 2 on which I want to press the cabinet secretary today. One of the Equal Opportunities Committee’s concerns at stage 1 was that the bill does not allow couples in a civil partnership that is registered in another country to change their civil partnership to a marriage in Scotland. That could leave those couples trapped outside the law as the only same-sex couples unable to marry in Scotland. I was, therefore, happy that at stage 2 the Scottish Government recognised the problem and committed to dealing with it. However, the point is to be addressed by order and not through primary legislation, to allow the Government time to consult on the detail of it. It is important to me and to several other committee members that the Government act on that point and that any change is done right.
At stage 2, my committee colleague John Finnie asked the cabinet secretary:
“can you give an undertaking that the general policy approach on the matter will be, as far as possible, to enable all same-sex couples with foreign civil partnerships to marry in Scotland?”
The cabinet secretary’s response was:
“Absolutely, and that is why I need time to get the approach right.”—[Official Report, Equal Opportunities Committee, 19 December 2013; c 1707.]
In the light of that guarantee given at stage 2, I ask the cabinet secretary to provide more information about the process of introducing an order to deal with that specific point and the timescale that we could expect the order to be delivered in.
This Parliament has come a long way since the debate on section 28 and it has come even further since the introduction of civil partnerships. The case for equal marriage has been made. The safeguards are there. The bill does not curtail religious freedom, it enhances it. The bill does not deal in half measures for same-sex couples, but gives them the same rights that every other couple has. Let us vote today for a bill that we have already waited too long for. Let us vote today for a fairer Scotland.
16:45
That is exactly what I have tried to do as the convener of the Equal Opportunities Committee and I can say the same for my committee colleagues. Whatever our initial thoughts about the principles behind the bill, we worked together to take evidence, over several months, to produce a balanced and comprehensive report on the bill and to debate many of the amendments that have returned to the chamber in some form today. At the end of that process, having listened carefully to the different arguments that have been made, I am more convinced than ever that it is right to pass the bill and to legislate for equal marriage.
Much has been made in the debate of the state of public opinion. We have been told that the majority of respondents to the Government’s consultation opposed changing the law and that to do so would therefore be against the wishes of the Scottish people. It has even been suggested that the bill should be put to a referendum. However, I do not believe that the rights of any minority should be dependent on the will of a majority at a particular point in time. Nor do I believe that members should take a view on the bill on the basis of the way that they think the wind is blowing. We must do what we believe is right.
Nonetheless, let us take a closer look at public opinion. Professor John Curtice reminded the committee that pro forma letters and emails that are part of an organised campaign might tell us more about the structure than the state of public opinion. Opinion polls actually show that 60 to 65 per cent of the public support same-sex marriage and that is consistent with the findings of the independent Scottish social attitudes survey.
Many of the amendments that have been presented today, like those that were presented to the committee, relate to concerns about how the bill might affect people who have a traditional view of marriage. In my view, such amendments are unnecessary, because sufficient safeguards to protect the rights of those people either already exist or are provided for in the bill. The only religious or belief bodies that will solemnise a same-sex marriage and the only religious celebrants who will participate are those who want to. That is what the opt-in approach that has been taken in the bill is all about—legislating for equal marriage but securing the right of religious and belief bodies to decide whether they want to be part of it.
No prospective foster carer or adoptive parent should be refused solely on the basis of their views about same-sex marriage. The best interests of the child should come first, as they do under the law at present. Furthermore, the right to express a traditional view of marriage as being between one man and one woman is already protected by our freedom of expression; it does not require a specific mention in the bill.
There is one amendment that was withdrawn during stage 2 on which I want to press the cabinet secretary today. One of the Equal Opportunities Committee’s concerns at stage 1 was that the bill does not allow couples in a civil partnership that is registered in another country to change their civil partnership to a marriage in Scotland. That could leave those couples trapped outside the law as the only same-sex couples unable to marry in Scotland. I was, therefore, happy that at stage 2 the Scottish Government recognised the problem and committed to dealing with it. However, the point is to be addressed by order and not through primary legislation, to allow the Government time to consult on the detail of it. It is important to me and to several other committee members that the Government act on that point and that any change is done right.
At stage 2, my committee colleague John Finnie asked the cabinet secretary:
“can you give an undertaking that the general policy approach on the matter will be, as far as possible, to enable all same-sex couples with foreign civil partnerships to marry in Scotland?”
The cabinet secretary’s response was:
“Absolutely, and that is why I need time to get the approach right.”—[Official Report, Equal Opportunities Committee, 19 December 2013; c 1707.]
In the light of that guarantee given at stage 2, I ask the cabinet secretary to provide more information about the process of introducing an order to deal with that specific point and the timescale that we could expect the order to be delivered in.
This Parliament has come a long way since the debate on section 28 and it has come even further since the introduction of civil partnerships. The case for equal marriage has been made. The safeguards are there. The bill does not curtail religious freedom, it enhances it. The bill does not deal in half measures for same-sex couples, but gives them the same rights that every other couple has. Let us vote today for a bill that we have already waited too long for. Let us vote today for a fairer Scotland.
16:45
In the same item of business
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NPA
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The Presiding Officer
NPA
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Jackson Carlaw
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Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab)
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Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
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John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
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The next speeches will be of five minutes.16:51
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Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP)
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You need to bring your remarks to a close.
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It will have to be brief, Ms Fabiani.
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