Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 04 February 2014
04 Feb 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill
—but in his own time.
On re-reading that Official Report I saw that there were also eloquent speeches from Nigel Don and John Mason, who put the alternative point of view.
As we move past the amendment stage this afternoon, the Parliament is entitled to take a celebratory attitude to the bill that we are about to pass. I congratulate all those across Scotland who have campaigned to bring this moment about: the Equality Network and its indefatigable parliamentary liaison officer, Tom French, and all the others across Scotland who have done this.
I know that there will be a big party in Hemma tonight. My clubbing days are gone; I do not know whether Jackie Baillie, Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Neil plan to be dancing tonight. I think that Ruth Davidson could be. I look at Jim Hume and see a bit of a wannabe, so it is possible that he will want to be. Today is a celebration.
I echo what I said when I co-sponsored some equal marriage events. My wife and I have enjoyed 26 years of marriage, not civil partnership. I want every couple in Scotland, regardless of their sex, to be able to have exactly the same opportunity to enjoy a long and happy marriage such as we have had.
I also welcome the fact that those couples will be moving into modern Scottish family life. That includes the experience of single parents who are struggling, either through fate or circumstance or choice, to bring up children on their own. It includes my experience: my mother and father were married and I am the married father of two highly opinionated young sons—how they became so highly opinionated, I have no idea. It also includes the experience of same-sex couples. I hope that they will have the opportunity to enjoy marriage, to be able to rear children in a happy and stable family environment and to have everything that goes with that.
I also take a practical point of view. Our country has an ageing demographic. We do not want people to feel that they have to live alone. I want us to do whatever we can to make it possible for any couple to share a life together. If the marriage legislation that we will pass today encourages that, that will be all to the benefit of our nation.
There has been huge change in my lifetime from the brutal atmosphere in which gay people had to live when I was a teenager and young man, when gay people felt that they had to strangle their sexuality. I know some of those people—I am in the Tory party after all. [Laughter.] Okay, it is a common point for everyone else.
Today is a fantastic change to be celebrated in the mood, style, signature and stamp of my country, Scotland. Let me chuck in a bit of musical theatre, because it is that kind of debate, is it not? Rodgers and Hammerstein’s 1943 musical “South Pacific” was made into a movie in 1958, the year before I was born. As a 12-year-old, I was confronted by this particular lyric:
You’ve got to be taught to hate and fear,
You’ve got to be taught from year to year,
It’s got to be drummed in your dear little ear,
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
You’ve got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff’rent shade,
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
You’ve got to be taught before it’s too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You’ve got to be carefully taught!
I do not ascribe any of those prejudices to anyone in the chamber this afternoon, but what that song said to me as a 12-year-old is that we can come into politics and hope to change the attitudes in the country about sexual, racial and religious equality. We politicians have the opportunity today to be part of a generation that teaches the next generation, without prescribing the word “teach” too strongly, about the kind of country that they want to work in, to live in, to marry in, and the country that I want to vote for tonight.
On re-reading that Official Report I saw that there were also eloquent speeches from Nigel Don and John Mason, who put the alternative point of view.
As we move past the amendment stage this afternoon, the Parliament is entitled to take a celebratory attitude to the bill that we are about to pass. I congratulate all those across Scotland who have campaigned to bring this moment about: the Equality Network and its indefatigable parliamentary liaison officer, Tom French, and all the others across Scotland who have done this.
I know that there will be a big party in Hemma tonight. My clubbing days are gone; I do not know whether Jackie Baillie, Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Neil plan to be dancing tonight. I think that Ruth Davidson could be. I look at Jim Hume and see a bit of a wannabe, so it is possible that he will want to be. Today is a celebration.
I echo what I said when I co-sponsored some equal marriage events. My wife and I have enjoyed 26 years of marriage, not civil partnership. I want every couple in Scotland, regardless of their sex, to be able to have exactly the same opportunity to enjoy a long and happy marriage such as we have had.
I also welcome the fact that those couples will be moving into modern Scottish family life. That includes the experience of single parents who are struggling, either through fate or circumstance or choice, to bring up children on their own. It includes my experience: my mother and father were married and I am the married father of two highly opinionated young sons—how they became so highly opinionated, I have no idea. It also includes the experience of same-sex couples. I hope that they will have the opportunity to enjoy marriage, to be able to rear children in a happy and stable family environment and to have everything that goes with that.
I also take a practical point of view. Our country has an ageing demographic. We do not want people to feel that they have to live alone. I want us to do whatever we can to make it possible for any couple to share a life together. If the marriage legislation that we will pass today encourages that, that will be all to the benefit of our nation.
There has been huge change in my lifetime from the brutal atmosphere in which gay people had to live when I was a teenager and young man, when gay people felt that they had to strangle their sexuality. I know some of those people—I am in the Tory party after all. [Laughter.] Okay, it is a common point for everyone else.
Today is a fantastic change to be celebrated in the mood, style, signature and stamp of my country, Scotland. Let me chuck in a bit of musical theatre, because it is that kind of debate, is it not? Rodgers and Hammerstein’s 1943 musical “South Pacific” was made into a movie in 1958, the year before I was born. As a 12-year-old, I was confronted by this particular lyric:
You’ve got to be taught to hate and fear,
You’ve got to be taught from year to year,
It’s got to be drummed in your dear little ear,
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
You’ve got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff’rent shade,
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
You’ve got to be taught before it’s too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You’ve got to be carefully taught!
I do not ascribe any of those prejudices to anyone in the chamber this afternoon, but what that song said to me as a 12-year-old is that we can come into politics and hope to change the attitudes in the country about sexual, racial and religious equality. We politicians have the opportunity today to be part of a generation that teaches the next generation, without prescribing the word “teach” too strongly, about the kind of country that they want to work in, to live in, to marry in, and the country that I want to vote for tonight.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
Before we start, I say to Parliament that, as a consequence of the earlier decision to extend the debate on amendments by 30 minutes, decision time will also...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Alex Neil)
SNP
I am pleased to open the stage 3 debate on the Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill.I thank the members of the Equal Opportunities Committee; its c...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Cabinet secretary, you just destroyed all my calculations and I will have to start all over again.16:19
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
Like the cabinet secretary, I am pleased to participate in the stage 3 debate on the Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill.I commend the members and...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
When this parliamentary year started and we came back from the summer recess in full anticipation of passing momentous legislation on same-sex marriage, my p...
Jackson Carlaw
Con
—but in his own time.On re-reading that Official Report I saw that there were also eloquent speeches from Nigel Don and John Mason, who put the alternative p...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We now move to the open debate. We are heavily subscribed, notwithstanding the cabinet secretary’s efforts. I advise members that the first few speakers can ...
Marco Biagi (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
SNP
Presiding Officer,“I am a migrant with a German passport who was born in a former Soviet country. I want to stay because I learned that Scotland is a place w...
Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I support same-sex marriage as a matter of principle. Not long after I was elected to the Parliament, I was proud to pledge my support to the equal marriage ...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Members will not be surprised to discover—if they do not know already—that I will vote with the minority at decision time tonight. However, I have no intenti...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
Will the member accept that it should be the quality rather than the quantity that matters when it comes to amendments?
Alex Johnstone
Con
Indeed. That is very much the case, as the way in which the evidence has been treated throughout the process indicates.As I said, I am disappointed that we w...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The next speeches will be of five minutes.16:51
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
SNP
I start by responding to the point that Alex Johnstone just made. I would have thought that, if anything, the bill would strengthen marriage because it makes...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Tonight, I will be out of step with the majority of the Parliament, and I regret that. However, I am grateful for the opportunity to speak at what is undoubt...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
Will the member give way?
Richard Lyle
SNP
No, I will not. I have only five minutes.There are adoptive parents out there who are frightened that their opposition to same-sex marriage will be misunders...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
You need to bring your remarks to a close.
Richard Lyle
SNP
That happened before the law is changed.I know that I will not win tonight, but I will vote in line with my conscience, in the way that I have always stood u...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
The debate is no less welcome for being long awaited. At decision time, Scotland can become the 17th or the 26th country or territory around the world—it dep...
Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP)
SNP
It is an absolute delight to be in the chamber today and to pass the bill very soon, I hope.I thank not only all those who have worked hard to bring to fruit...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
It will have to be brief, Ms Fabiani.
Linda Fabiani
SNP
Absolutely. The Equality Network is saying that there is still a lot more work to do to tackle prejudice and to ensure that LGBT people receive equal treatme...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD)
LD
Fairness and equality run through the veins of every true Liberal Democrat I know. We want Scotland to be one of the fairest and most equal places in the wor...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
The process has been a long one. I thank members, the clerks and others who have helped with a professional attitude throughout. I first said something publi...
Jim Hume
LD
I do not like to say that the member is scaremongering, but does he have any evidence at all of religious organisations being squeezed out?
John Mason
SNP
We have gone over some of this already, but it appears that, for example, somebody with traditional committed Christian or Muslim beliefs cannot be a registr...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
I thank the various groups that provided briefings for the debate. One line in the Equality Network briefing said that it would make Scotland fair and more e...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
You need to make it brief.
John Finnie
Ind
Martin Luther King Jnr said:“I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too big a burden to bear.”I ask others to facilitate the love that would allow people...