Committee
Justice Committee 19 November 2013
19 Nov 2013 · S4 · Justice Committee
Item of business
Victims and Witnesses (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I speak first to amendment 32, which is in my name. Victims of crime should clearly have the opportunity to communicate to the court the physical, emotional and economic impact of crime. That is why I introduced the victim statement scheme, which allows victims to give a written statement describing how the offence has affected them. However, I have heard first hand from victims of crime who struggle to fully convey in writing the impact that the crime has had on them. I have been asked why it is not possible to make a victim statement by way of a pre-recorded video. In this day and age, we should explore whether such alternative means of making statements are viable; we should also ensure that we have the flexibility to utilise new technologies as they become available.Amendment 32 introduces an order-making power into section 14 of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 2003 to allow the Scottish ministers to specify the format in which victim statements can be made. Crucially, that allows formats to be piloted for specific periods of time and in specific areas. Taking a power to pilot new formats will allow for a full evaluation of any new approach to be carried out, taking into consideration the views of victims, the courts, the Crown and the defence. If pilots are successful, any new statement formats can be extended more widely.The new power will enable the Scottish ministers and criminal justice partners to take a balanced and considered approach to extending the format in which victim statements can be delivered, while allowing for the development of new formats in response to advances in technology.In amendment 86, Graeme Pearson has made a suggestion in the same vein that allows for different means by which a victim statement can be made. I welcome his attention to the matter. I have concerns, however, regarding the extent of amendment 86, in that victims would be able to read their victim statement live in court. I am not sure how well that would work in practice, nor am I persuaded of the benefits of such a measure. I have concerns about the potential impact on the victim. That said, I would not want to rule out that proposal altogether and would be happy to revisit it once greater consideration has been given to how such a measure would operate in practice and the benefits and risks to the victim have been explored in more detail, which will also be informed by any pilots of alternative forms of victim statement.Amendments 30 and 31 in my name amend section 19 of the bill. The effect is that children over the age of 12, rather than 14, will be able to make victim statements in their own right. At present, children over 14 are able to make victim statements. However, as a number of victim support groups, including Children 1st and Scottish Women’s Aid, have pointed out, the age of 14 is inconsistent with other legislation relating to children, primarily the Age of Legal Capacity (Scotland) Act 1991, which provides that children over the age of 12 have testamentary capacity and are able to make decisions about many things, including instructing a solicitor.I agree that it is appropriate to align the provisions around victim statements with existing legislation as far as possible and therefore I am taking this opportunity to introduce an amendment at stage 2 to lower the minimum age from 14 to 12. However, I am not persuaded that there is a need to totally remove the minimum age limit at which children may make a statement in their own right, as proposed by Elaine Murray in amendment 68. Basing a decision on whether a child is capable of making a statement solely on the age and maturity of the child would involve additional delays in the process by requiring an assessment by a psychologist. That delay and additional process could cause further stress to the child. It is more appropriate that statements should be prepared by a parent or carer on the child’s behalf, taking into account the views of the child, as proposed in the bill and by amendments 30 and 31.I consider that requiring the court to make a decision on which carer should make the statement, where there is more than one possible candidate, as set out in amendment 68, is an unnecessary requirement. Again, that step will cause additional delays and prolong the process for the child. Where more than one person is eligible to make a statement of behalf of the child, there is existing provision in section 19 to provide for agreement to be reached by the carers themselves. It also sets out that the child must be allowed to express their views and that those views must be taken into account when the decision is made. That less formal approach does not require the involvement of the court, thereby reducing the possibility of delays and additional stress on the child.Amendment 29 is a minor drafting amendment that does not alter the overall effect of section 19 and is in consequence of amendment 32.I urge Elaine Murray and Graeme Pearson not to move amendments 68 and 86 respectively.I move amendment 29.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Christine Grahame)
SNP
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 32nd meeting of an extremely hard-working Justice Committee, which will sit again tomorrow. We never get away from on...
The Convener
SNP
We move straight to the amendments. I hope that John Finnie is sitting comfortably, because he is up first. Amendment 84, in the name of John Finnie, is in a...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
Amendment 84 aims to designate as standard special measures in respect of intermediaries. There is significant evidence of the benefits of supporting child v...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I thank John Finnie for raising the issue, and I am keen to explore further the potential benefits of using intermediaries to assist vulnerable witnesses who...
John Finnie
Ind
Thank you, cabinet secretary—I am grateful for those words. That being the case, I will not press my amendment.Amendment 84, by agreement, withdrawn. Section...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 29, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 86, 30, 68, 31 and 32. If amendment 68 is agreed to, amendment 31 will be pre-...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
I speak first to amendment 32, which is in my name. Victims of crime should clearly have the opportunity to communicate to the court the physical, emotional ...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
When we considered amendments to the bill at our previous meeting, I rehearsed for the committee the evidence that we had received from victims and the gener...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s amendments 30 and 31, which lower the age at which a child may automatically make a victim statement to the age of 12. That...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I seek clarification on amendment 68 with regard to a child who is under 12. I concur with what everyone has said: we are considering victims. You said that ...
Elaine Murray
Lab
Amendment 68 just refers to a health professional; it does not specify which particular type of health professional. It could be a general practitioner who k...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP)
SNP
I will deal with Graeme Pearson’s amendment 86 first. It seems to me that there is provision in the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 2003 for steps to be take...
Elaine Murray
Lab
The issue is that in other legislation children under the age of 12 who have sufficient age and maturity are enabled to make their wishes known about what ha...
The Convener
SNP
I have a concern that young children might feel that they ought to say something when they do not want to. The existence of such a provision might make them ...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
I will deal first with Graeme Pearson’s amendment 86. The powers that are provided are generic, not specific. They are meant to be inclusive, not exclusive. ...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 69, in the name of Elaine Murray, is in a group on its own.
Elaine Murray
Lab
Amendment 69 would require the court to ascertain the views of the victim prior to making a compensation order and would prohibit the making of such an order...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Amendment 69 seems to be sensible. I am minded to support it, after I have heard what the cabinet secretary has to say.
Roderick Campbell
SNP
We should be slightly careful about going too far. It is right that courts ought to “consider” things, but we should not be perceived to be tying the hands o...
Graeme Pearson
Lab
Every time we try to move forward in any way that could be described as radical, we find a million reasons why we need to be careful, or whatever. At the end...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
At the moment, courts may consider imposing a compensation order on an offender, but are under no obligation to do so. The intention behind section 20 of the...
Elaine Murray
Lab
I appreciate that the cabinet secretary and Roderick Campbell have far more experience in matters of the law than I do, but I am slightly confused by their i...
The Convener
SNP
Elaine Murray seeks to withdraw amendment 69. Are members content with that?Amendment 69, by agreement, withdrawn.Section 20 agreed to. Section 21—Restitutio...
The Convener
SNP
We turn to restitution orders. Amendment 70, in the name of Alison McInnes, is grouped with amendments 71 to 73.
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
Amendments 70 to 73 would extend restitution orders and the associated fund to all emergency workers. That would mean that an assault on any emergency worker...
Roderick Campbell
SNP
I absolutely agree with Alison McInnes in theory. It seems to me that there ought not to be a distinction in theory between police officers and other emergen...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
I am sympathetic to the intention behind the amendments, but I will listen with interest to what the cabinet secretary says about the practical difficulties ...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Roderick Campbell has already said a lot of what I would have said. As I have said before, we are sympathetic to the idea of extending restitution orders to ...
Alison McInnes
LD
I have listened to the minister’s response. It does not seem to me to be beyond the wit of man to find out whether there are union or benevolent funds. That ...
The Convener
SNP
You have moved only one amendment; you are pressing amendment 70. We will deal with the others as we reach them.The question is, that amendment 70 be agreed ...