Committee
Justice Committee 19 November 2013
19 Nov 2013 · S4 · Justice Committee
Item of business
Victims and Witnesses (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 32nd meeting of an extremely hard-working Justice Committee, which will sit again tomorrow. We never get away from one another.I ask everyone to switch off mobile phones and other electronic devices completely as they interfere with the broadcasting system even when they are switched to silent.No apologies have been received. Members will be aware that I want—in fact, we all want—to conclude by 12.30 in order to allow those of us who are travelling to Helen Eadie’s funeral to leave.Item 1 is the continuation of stage 2 proceedings on the Victims and Witnesses (Scotland) Bill, which I hope to complete today. I welcome the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and his officials. As with our previous meeting, the officials are not here to answer questions at this stage. Members should have with them their copies of the bill and the marshalled list and groupings of amendments for consideration.After section 16
In the same item of business
The Convener (Christine Grahame)
SNP
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 32nd meeting of an extremely hard-working Justice Committee, which will sit again tomorrow. We never get away from on...
The Convener
SNP
We move straight to the amendments. I hope that John Finnie is sitting comfortably, because he is up first. Amendment 84, in the name of John Finnie, is in a...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
Amendment 84 aims to designate as standard special measures in respect of intermediaries. There is significant evidence of the benefits of supporting child v...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I thank John Finnie for raising the issue, and I am keen to explore further the potential benefits of using intermediaries to assist vulnerable witnesses who...
John Finnie
Ind
Thank you, cabinet secretary—I am grateful for those words. That being the case, I will not press my amendment.Amendment 84, by agreement, withdrawn. Section...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 29, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 86, 30, 68, 31 and 32. If amendment 68 is agreed to, amendment 31 will be pre-...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
I speak first to amendment 32, which is in my name. Victims of crime should clearly have the opportunity to communicate to the court the physical, emotional ...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
When we considered amendments to the bill at our previous meeting, I rehearsed for the committee the evidence that we had received from victims and the gener...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s amendments 30 and 31, which lower the age at which a child may automatically make a victim statement to the age of 12. That...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I seek clarification on amendment 68 with regard to a child who is under 12. I concur with what everyone has said: we are considering victims. You said that ...
Elaine Murray
Lab
Amendment 68 just refers to a health professional; it does not specify which particular type of health professional. It could be a general practitioner who k...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP)
SNP
I will deal with Graeme Pearson’s amendment 86 first. It seems to me that there is provision in the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 2003 for steps to be take...
Elaine Murray
Lab
The issue is that in other legislation children under the age of 12 who have sufficient age and maturity are enabled to make their wishes known about what ha...
The Convener
SNP
I have a concern that young children might feel that they ought to say something when they do not want to. The existence of such a provision might make them ...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
I will deal first with Graeme Pearson’s amendment 86. The powers that are provided are generic, not specific. They are meant to be inclusive, not exclusive. ...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 69, in the name of Elaine Murray, is in a group on its own.
Elaine Murray
Lab
Amendment 69 would require the court to ascertain the views of the victim prior to making a compensation order and would prohibit the making of such an order...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Amendment 69 seems to be sensible. I am minded to support it, after I have heard what the cabinet secretary has to say.
Roderick Campbell
SNP
We should be slightly careful about going too far. It is right that courts ought to “consider” things, but we should not be perceived to be tying the hands o...
Graeme Pearson
Lab
Every time we try to move forward in any way that could be described as radical, we find a million reasons why we need to be careful, or whatever. At the end...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
At the moment, courts may consider imposing a compensation order on an offender, but are under no obligation to do so. The intention behind section 20 of the...
Elaine Murray
Lab
I appreciate that the cabinet secretary and Roderick Campbell have far more experience in matters of the law than I do, but I am slightly confused by their i...
The Convener
SNP
Elaine Murray seeks to withdraw amendment 69. Are members content with that?Amendment 69, by agreement, withdrawn.Section 20 agreed to. Section 21—Restitutio...
The Convener
SNP
We turn to restitution orders. Amendment 70, in the name of Alison McInnes, is grouped with amendments 71 to 73.
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
Amendments 70 to 73 would extend restitution orders and the associated fund to all emergency workers. That would mean that an assault on any emergency worker...
Roderick Campbell
SNP
I absolutely agree with Alison McInnes in theory. It seems to me that there ought not to be a distinction in theory between police officers and other emergen...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
I am sympathetic to the intention behind the amendments, but I will listen with interest to what the cabinet secretary says about the practical difficulties ...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Roderick Campbell has already said a lot of what I would have said. As I have said before, we are sympathetic to the idea of extending restitution orders to ...
Alison McInnes
LD
I have listened to the minister’s response. It does not seem to me to be beyond the wit of man to find out whether there are union or benevolent funds. That ...
The Convener
SNP
You have moved only one amendment; you are pressing amendment 70. We will deal with the others as we reach them.The question is, that amendment 70 be agreed ...