Committee
Education and Culture Committee 14 January 2014
14 Jan 2014 · S4 · Education and Culture Committee
Item of business
Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I am pleased to speak to my amendments 84 to 86, which would increase and guarantee the number of two-year-old children in Scotland who are eligible for early learning and childcare. I am disappointed that it appears from a letter to the committee last week that the minister has already ruled out Scottish National Party Government support for increasing and guaranteeing in the bill the number of two-year-olds who are eligible for childcare.We all know the importance of providing quality childcare. It helps a child’s learning and development and helps to put money in families’ pockets. It is targeted at the poorest and helps to reduce child poverty, and it is good for the economy more generally.All parties that are represented on the committee have said that we need to provide more childcare, particularly for two-year-olds. However, just 3 per cent of two-year-olds will be guaranteed free nursery provision in the bill, which states that looked-after two-year-olds and those who are the subject of a kinship care order will be eligible for free nursery provision. I have said since before the bill was published that that is unambitious and risks being a missed opportunity. Opposition parties have rightly said that we can and should go much further—I repeat that, despite the Scottish Government’s partial U-turn last week. That was a U-turn, given that the minister said on 8 October 2013:“I am not prepared to announce something that we cannot deliver on later”.—Official Report, Education and Culture Committee, 8 October 2013; c 2968.The Scottish Government has not gone far enough to back Labour’s proposal to give half Scotland’s two-year-olds childcare now. From September this year, 40 per cent of two-year-olds in England will receive nursery and childcare provision, but only 15 per cent will get that in Scotland. When that goes up to 27 per cent in Scotland in the following year, the SNP Government will still lag behind the Conservative and Lib Dem coalition on childcare.As members know, amendment 85 would entitle half Scotland’s two-year-olds to 600 hours of childcare a year by using receipt of working tax credits and child tax credits as a criterion. That would benefit 30,000 children and save their families more than £2,000 a year in childcare costs—the figure was calculated using the same methods that the Scottish Government uses for its claims—and would be action to help with the cost of living and take children out of poverty. The policy is identical to the first stage of the plans that are in the Scottish Government’s white paper.There are resources and powers to deliver on childcare now, as the First Minister proved last week, so this is a question of political will. Given that the policy is in the white paper, I expect SNP members to support amendment 85, which appeared to be SNP Government policy six or seven weeks ago.Members should also support amendment 86, which would guarantee childcare for the poorest two-year-olds. It would extend childcare to two-year-olds who qualify to receive free school meals. That would mean that approximately 27 per cent of the poorest and most vulnerable two-year-olds would receive early learning and childcare, which was the SNP’s policy last week.I am pleased that my amendments are supported by a significant number of children’s charities and others, who reaffirmed their support this week. Helping children in poverty should be a priority, and I expect members to support—as a minimum—amendment 86, given that its provisions appear to be the new SNP policy on childcare as announced last week.I welcome Liam McArthur’s amendments 338 to 340. Our amendments propose different criteria, but they are consistent in acknowledging that the bill needs to go much further in providing nursery places and guaranteeing childcare for two-year-olds, so I am happy to support those amendments.It is worth restating that, even after the Scottish Government’s partial U-turn of last week, 40 per cent of English two-year-olds will, as of September this year, receive childcare, while only 15 per cent of two-year-olds in Scotland will receive such provision. The Scottish Government will still be lagging behind England on childcare, even when it gets the percentage up to 27 per cent.I ask the minister to state in her response whether she thinks that the situation is satisfactory, and to explain why Scottish two-year-olds will not have the same access to nursery provision as English two-year-olds. Is the minister happy with that? I think that parents will agree with me that it is not satisfactory.It is also worth stating that SNP members will, in voting against the amendments, be voting against their own white paper policy and the policy change that was announced last week. There seems to be a real reluctance to put additional childcare entitlements for two-year-olds in the text of bill, and the obvious question is why. The original childcare entitlement for 3 per cent of two-year-olds was in the text of bill, so why will the Government not go further and include additional entitlements?Why will the Government not support its own policy and put its stated childcare commitments in the text of the bill? If the minister refuses to do so, will she confirm that there will be no commitment to childcare—other than for looked-after two-year-olds—in the bill as currently drafted?My Labour colleagues and I have said that the bill risks being a missed opportunity, but in reality it is fast becoming a childcare bill with next to no childcare commitments written into it.I move amendment 84.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Stewart Maxwell)
SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2014 of the Education and Culture Committee. I remind everyone present to switch off their mobile phones a...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 337, in the name of Liam McArthur, is in a group on its own.
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
Shortly, we will come to the substance of what we are looking to the bill to achieve on early learning and childcare but, whatever we decide in that context,...
The Convener
SNP
As no other members wish to speak, I call the minister.
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell)
SNP
Amendment 337 seeks to amend the early learning and childcare provisions to include specific reference to the aims of those provisions. It is unusual to plac...
Liam McArthur
LD
I listened to what the minister said, particularly about the practical effect of amendment 337. Nevertheless, there would be value in setting out more clearl...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 337 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division.ForBaxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)Smith, Liz (Mid S...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0.Amendment 337 disagreed to.Section 42 agreed to.Section 43—Duty to secure provision of early l...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 48, in the name of Liz Smith, is grouped with amendments 49 and 50.
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Thousands of children lose out on nursery provision simply because they were born in the wrong month. Children who were born between 1 September and 29 Febru...
Liam McArthur
LD
Like Liz Smith and other members, during stage 1, I raised the issue of potential discrepancies in relation to how some children would benefit from the addit...
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
SNP
My concern with a change to commencement dates is that there seems to be no funding available for it. The amendments do not indicate where the funding would ...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
As we have heard, amendments 48 to 50, through moving to a system of all children receiving two full years of funded early learning and childcare, would resu...
Liz Smith
Con
I listened carefully to what the minister said, which repeated the comment that the Scottish Government has made before—that the current policy makes the bes...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 48 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division.ForBaxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)Smith, Liz (Mid S...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0.Amendment 48 disagreed to.
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 84, in the name of Neil Bibby, is grouped with amendments 338, 85, 86, 339 and 340.
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to speak to my amendments 84 to 86, which would increase and guarantee the number of two-year-old children in Scotland who are eligible for earl...
Liam McArthur
LD
What a difference a week makes. I know that we were unable to deal with part 6 of the bill last week, for perfectly understandable reasons, but it leaves us ...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I will speak to amendments 84 to 86. The bill has always been a starting point for the Scottish Government’s ambitions and I am sure that, as Neil Bibby said...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
Although I support all the amendments in the group, I wish to focus on those in the name of my colleague Neil Bibby.It is disappointing that we did not have ...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I apologise to the convener, the minister and members for my slightly late arrival.I, too, wish to speak to amendments 84 to 86. First, I congratulate Liam M...
Liz Smith
Con
I fully understand and accept that not all childcare can be delivered in one context. The Conservatives have been totally consistent about that. Nonetheless,...
The Convener
SNP
I must be honest and say that, without proper analysis of where the finance would come from, it is impossible to see how any member can seriously consider su...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
We share the ambition to deliver early learning and childcare to significantly more two-year-olds who are in greater need. We know that children from more di...
Neil Bibby
Lab
I want to rebut some of the highly misleading claims of Joan McAlpine, the minister and the convener, who said that Labour voted against increased childcare ...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Will you take an intervention?
Neil Bibby
Lab
I want to conclude, minister. Labour supports the provision of more childcare now, under devolution. As I said, the SNP could have gone much further last wee...