Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 18 September 2013
18 Sep 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Future
If Margo MacDonald is making the point that our footprint is smaller than it once was, in different times of war, to break up our nation and break up that defence footprint is not the answer.
The First Minister talked about the ingenuity of our people. I believe in it, too. I believe in ensuring the greatest opportunity and prosperity for people in the future. We have helped to build a UK economy that is capable not just of withstanding shocks that have holed other European nations, but of long-term growth. We have prospered through our partnership with the other home nations and we continue to do so. Scottish businesses benefit from being part of a single UK market. We export twice as much to England as to any other part of the world—£45.5 billion annually. Over the past decade, the value to Scotland of trade with the rest of the UK has increased by more than 60 per cent.
The First Minister likes to convey a sense that, under independence, everything would change but nothing would change. If we were to leave the United Kingdom, it would inevitably mean different rules on the different sides of the border—there would be different financial regulations, different employment laws, different insurance requirements, different tax authorities and different accreditations and qualifications, and small companies would be obliged to contend with that. Those are all barriers to trade, obstructions to economic growth and impediments to the job creation that we all want.
In financial services, nearly 400,000 products, a fifth of a million Scottish jobs and nearly £10 billion of financial service exports are built on doing business within the single UK market. Our manufacturers are part of a 60 million person market, our exporters use our embassy and consular network as a platform for trade, and our individual workers have saved for a future and retirement in which they see stability and security as part of the UK.
I expect to be shouted down by the other side when I ask questions about what independence would mean. I expect to be flannelled when I ask questions that the First Minister does not want to answer. I expect a change of subject when I ask for evidence to support the latest assertion. That is politics. What I do not expect is the same treatment to be meted out to experts and trade organisations who are not backing one side or the other but are genuinely looking for the answers that their members need in order to make an informed decision about what is an historic choice, a generational opportunity and a world-shaping vote. The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland, the Confederation of British Industry Scotland and the Law Society of Scotland have all been told, “Don’t worry—it will all be in the white paper.”
People in Scotland need more information on the proposition that is being put to them. The Scottish Government has set a high bar for the forthcoming white paper, as all the questions from groups and individuals across the country have been disregarded and set aside, with people being told, “It’ll all be there.” Pensions, welfare, currency, international memberships and treaties, taxation, immigration, defence—we are told that information on all those things will be in the white paper. I truly hope that it is, because we have a year to go.
We want a future in which our countrymen and women have the best chance and there is the greatest opportunity for future prosperity, for jobs, for exports, for defence, for a secure and stable economy and for autonomy here in areas such as health, education and policing.
The First Minister talked about the ingenuity of our people. I believe in it, too. I believe in ensuring the greatest opportunity and prosperity for people in the future. We have helped to build a UK economy that is capable not just of withstanding shocks that have holed other European nations, but of long-term growth. We have prospered through our partnership with the other home nations and we continue to do so. Scottish businesses benefit from being part of a single UK market. We export twice as much to England as to any other part of the world—£45.5 billion annually. Over the past decade, the value to Scotland of trade with the rest of the UK has increased by more than 60 per cent.
The First Minister likes to convey a sense that, under independence, everything would change but nothing would change. If we were to leave the United Kingdom, it would inevitably mean different rules on the different sides of the border—there would be different financial regulations, different employment laws, different insurance requirements, different tax authorities and different accreditations and qualifications, and small companies would be obliged to contend with that. Those are all barriers to trade, obstructions to economic growth and impediments to the job creation that we all want.
In financial services, nearly 400,000 products, a fifth of a million Scottish jobs and nearly £10 billion of financial service exports are built on doing business within the single UK market. Our manufacturers are part of a 60 million person market, our exporters use our embassy and consular network as a platform for trade, and our individual workers have saved for a future and retirement in which they see stability and security as part of the UK.
I expect to be shouted down by the other side when I ask questions about what independence would mean. I expect to be flannelled when I ask questions that the First Minister does not want to answer. I expect a change of subject when I ask for evidence to support the latest assertion. That is politics. What I do not expect is the same treatment to be meted out to experts and trade organisations who are not backing one side or the other but are genuinely looking for the answers that their members need in order to make an informed decision about what is an historic choice, a generational opportunity and a world-shaping vote. The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland, the Confederation of British Industry Scotland and the Law Society of Scotland have all been told, “Don’t worry—it will all be in the white paper.”
People in Scotland need more information on the proposition that is being put to them. The Scottish Government has set a high bar for the forthcoming white paper, as all the questions from groups and individuals across the country have been disregarded and set aside, with people being told, “It’ll all be there.” Pensions, welfare, currency, international memberships and treaties, taxation, immigration, defence—we are told that information on all those things will be in the white paper. I truly hope that it is, because we have a year to go.
We want a future in which our countrymen and women have the best chance and there is the greatest opportunity for future prosperity, for jobs, for exports, for defence, for a secure and stable economy and for autonomy here in areas such as health, education and policing.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-07721, in the name of Alex Salmond, on Scotland’s future.14:40
The First Minister (Alex Salmond)
SNP
It will give me enormous pleasure to move the motion in my name. In exactly a year’s time, the people of Scotland will choose whether to become an independen...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con)
Con
The approach of “empathy, not enmity” does not appear to have lasted long.The First Minister suggested that“an independent Scotland will not inherit any shar...
The First Minister
SNP
First, I do not think that commenting on what the United Nations rapporteur has said is introducing antipathy into the debate; it is the bedroom tax that is ...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
I am proud to rise and speak to the amendment in my name. Indeed, it is because I am a proud Scot, not despite it, that I support Scotland’s remaining strong...
The First Minister
SNP
Earlier today—and I have the quotation here—Johann Lamont herself made the argument for Scottish decision making. She said about the Scottish Parliament:“Wha...
Johann Lamont
Lab
I thought that I made an excellent point, but obviously the First Minister, as ever, missed it. He is saying that all decisions have to be made here, but we ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order.
Johann Lamont
Lab
Alex Salmond looks at the Parliament of 1707 and says, “This Parliament is reconvened.” This Parliament, with a democratic suffrage, has nothing to do with t...
Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
In the run-up to today, the year-out point from the referendum, words such as “historic” “generational” and “once in a lifetime” have been regularly sprinkle...
Margo MacDonald (Lothian) (Ind)
Ind
I wonder whether Ruth Davidson is aware that there are fewer men under arms in the British army and other services now than there were at the start of the ba...
Ruth Davidson
Con
I believe that our footprint around the world is such that we are in the top three defence forces in the world, given our commitment of gross domestic produc...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order.
Ruth Davidson
Con
I believe that our future alliances, our future assistance and our future security will be best served by the British Army, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force—
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
Will Ruth Davidson give way?
Ruth Davidson
Con
—and not by the division of personnel, platforms, assets and hardware that separation would entail.
Kevin Stewart
SNP
Will the member give way?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member is not giving way, Mr Stewart.
Ruth Davidson
Con
If Margo MacDonald is making the point that our footprint is smaller than it once was, in different times of war, to break up our nation and break up that de...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Ms Davidson, you must end.
Ruth Davidson
Con
I believe in devolution. I believe in a strong Scottish Parliament in a strong UK and that is why I am proud to back the amendment to the motion.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We now move to the open debate. Speeches are to be six minutes long. I ask members to be as brief as they can.15:10
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
We live in exciting times. This is a time of potential responsibility and opportunity for our nation, although when people listen to the leader of the Labour...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Name and shame him!
George Adam
SNP
No, I will not do that, because he is not here.One young boy came up to me afterwards and said, in true Paisley fashion, “George—you had him on toast.”During...
Margo MacDonald
Ind
On the matter of campaigning 40 years ago, I was there. A report then found that one child in 10 was born to fail.
George Adam
SNP
I remember hearing about that report. It was one of the things that motivated me to become involved in politics. It is one of the reasons why, in the real wo...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
You must bring your remarks to a close, Mr Adam.
George Adam
SNP
We have the bedroom tax currently, and Mr Sarwar, the deputy leader of the Labour Party, is constantly making all kinds of accusations, and policy on the hop...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I really must ask you to close, Mr Adam.