Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 29 May 2013
29 May 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Automatic External Defibrillators
As others have done, I congratulate Margaret Mitchell on securing time for this important debate.
The sudden and unexpected death of a young person that has been caused by an inherited cardiac condition may be rare, but it is always a tragedy. We have made great advances in recent years in reducing the number of people who die as a result of cardiac events, but there is much more that we need to do to reduce that number still further.
A number of members referred to SADS and the particularly devastating effect that it can have on a young person, who often has had no symptoms and no indication that they were at risk.
I acknowledge the work that is undertaken by the familial arrhythmia network for Scotland—or FANS, as it is known—which plays a vital role in helping to identify young people with an arrhythmia. The network brings together cardiologists, clinical geneticists and pathologists to help ensure that we reduce the risk of sudden cardiac death, and target the young people who may be at particular risk.
Nanette Milne referred to CAYA—the cardiac assessment for young athletes. We have provided that programme with a further £40,000 to allow it to continue, so that we can look at further measures that can be undertaken to develop the programme and provide protection to young people who are involved in athletics.
We have taken forward a range of work with the Scottish Ambulance Service, to which we have provided £7.5 million to allow it to purchase more than 500 state-of-the-art defibrillators for all Scottish Ambulance Service ambulances.
Members such as Stewart Stevenson referred to the fact that delay in performing defibrillation can reduce the chances of recovery and the important role that AEDs and PADs—publicly accessible defibrillators—can have in supporting someone who has arrested, prior to the arrival of the emergency services. AEDs and PADs must be looked at in the context of community resilience and what we can do to help the wider community make use of such pieces of equipment when they are available. There is no point in making them publicly available if individuals do not have the confidence and ability to use them.
The Scottish Ambulance Service has been working in remote and urban communities in which a publicly available defibrillator that could benefit those communities can be provided. Some of that work has been done by looking at remote areas, urban venues with high footfall, or areas in which clusters of cardiac arrests have occurred. The Scottish Ambulance Service is also looking to train community members in the use of the equipment.
To support that work, since 2011 the Scottish Ambulance Service has developed a partnership with Scotmid—which owns the Semichem network—and the British Heart Foundation, which has identified shops in which defibrillators could be located. Staff have been trained and supported in how to use defibrillators in the community. I have no doubt that that will help to make defibrillators more accessible and ensure that we have individuals who have received training and can make use of them.
To those who have had no training in the use of an AED, I can say—Stewart Stevenson gave away some of my background in his speech—that they are extremely simple. It is not possible to shock someone accidentally. If the person should not be shocked, the system does not allow a shock to be discharged. It also monitors whether there is any rhythm and, in some cases, it indicates that no shock should be provided because no support is necessary. The units are extremely safe, and although several models are available, they are extremely easy to use with a little training and understanding of them.
In providing the units in different parts of the country, we need to know where they are at any given time. Therefore, the Scottish Ambulance Service is undertaking work to map the publicly accessible defibrillators, and that information will be built into its command and control unit so that, when someone calls for an ambulance, that individual can be directed to where they can get a PAD. I understand that the defibrillators that are being provided in schools in Lanarkshire will form part of that information in the command and control unit, and I have no doubt that that will help to support the service.
I agree with Malcolm Chisholm that it is important that, although technology can help us to a considerable extent in supporting someone who is having a cardiac arrest, we must also ensure that people understand the basics of CPR. It is a bit like going up a mountain with a GPS device but not knowing how to use a compass if the device breaks down. People need to be able to go back to the basics, and part of that is CPR. We are working with the British Heart Foundation, as Malcolm Chisholm said, in providing funding support to develop the heartstart programme, which will provide emergency life-support training for school pupils. That programme is being developed, and we hope to make an announcement later this year when we will take that further forward.
Fiona McLeod referred to Lucky2BHere, a charity based in Skye that is undertaking tremendous work not only around AEDs but around CPR training for school pupils. Work is also being done by Chest, Heart and Stroke Scotland with Education Scotland on developing a national emergency life-support education resource that can be used in classrooms as part of the health and wellbeing part of the curriculum for excellence.
Technology has a lot to give in support of addressing this issue, but we must keep it within the wider context of educating our young people in how to carry out CPR as and when it is appropriate. The work that the Scottish Government is doing with the British Heart Foundation will support the delivery of that in schools throughout the country.
I hope that that has given members some assurance about the work that we are undertaking to ensure that publicly available defibrillators are properly mapped and are more widely available in areas where they can be most appropriately used, alongside our support for the training of school pupils in the basics of CPR.
Meeting closed at 17:43.
The sudden and unexpected death of a young person that has been caused by an inherited cardiac condition may be rare, but it is always a tragedy. We have made great advances in recent years in reducing the number of people who die as a result of cardiac events, but there is much more that we need to do to reduce that number still further.
A number of members referred to SADS and the particularly devastating effect that it can have on a young person, who often has had no symptoms and no indication that they were at risk.
I acknowledge the work that is undertaken by the familial arrhythmia network for Scotland—or FANS, as it is known—which plays a vital role in helping to identify young people with an arrhythmia. The network brings together cardiologists, clinical geneticists and pathologists to help ensure that we reduce the risk of sudden cardiac death, and target the young people who may be at particular risk.
Nanette Milne referred to CAYA—the cardiac assessment for young athletes. We have provided that programme with a further £40,000 to allow it to continue, so that we can look at further measures that can be undertaken to develop the programme and provide protection to young people who are involved in athletics.
We have taken forward a range of work with the Scottish Ambulance Service, to which we have provided £7.5 million to allow it to purchase more than 500 state-of-the-art defibrillators for all Scottish Ambulance Service ambulances.
Members such as Stewart Stevenson referred to the fact that delay in performing defibrillation can reduce the chances of recovery and the important role that AEDs and PADs—publicly accessible defibrillators—can have in supporting someone who has arrested, prior to the arrival of the emergency services. AEDs and PADs must be looked at in the context of community resilience and what we can do to help the wider community make use of such pieces of equipment when they are available. There is no point in making them publicly available if individuals do not have the confidence and ability to use them.
The Scottish Ambulance Service has been working in remote and urban communities in which a publicly available defibrillator that could benefit those communities can be provided. Some of that work has been done by looking at remote areas, urban venues with high footfall, or areas in which clusters of cardiac arrests have occurred. The Scottish Ambulance Service is also looking to train community members in the use of the equipment.
To support that work, since 2011 the Scottish Ambulance Service has developed a partnership with Scotmid—which owns the Semichem network—and the British Heart Foundation, which has identified shops in which defibrillators could be located. Staff have been trained and supported in how to use defibrillators in the community. I have no doubt that that will help to make defibrillators more accessible and ensure that we have individuals who have received training and can make use of them.
To those who have had no training in the use of an AED, I can say—Stewart Stevenson gave away some of my background in his speech—that they are extremely simple. It is not possible to shock someone accidentally. If the person should not be shocked, the system does not allow a shock to be discharged. It also monitors whether there is any rhythm and, in some cases, it indicates that no shock should be provided because no support is necessary. The units are extremely safe, and although several models are available, they are extremely easy to use with a little training and understanding of them.
In providing the units in different parts of the country, we need to know where they are at any given time. Therefore, the Scottish Ambulance Service is undertaking work to map the publicly accessible defibrillators, and that information will be built into its command and control unit so that, when someone calls for an ambulance, that individual can be directed to where they can get a PAD. I understand that the defibrillators that are being provided in schools in Lanarkshire will form part of that information in the command and control unit, and I have no doubt that that will help to support the service.
I agree with Malcolm Chisholm that it is important that, although technology can help us to a considerable extent in supporting someone who is having a cardiac arrest, we must also ensure that people understand the basics of CPR. It is a bit like going up a mountain with a GPS device but not knowing how to use a compass if the device breaks down. People need to be able to go back to the basics, and part of that is CPR. We are working with the British Heart Foundation, as Malcolm Chisholm said, in providing funding support to develop the heartstart programme, which will provide emergency life-support training for school pupils. That programme is being developed, and we hope to make an announcement later this year when we will take that further forward.
Fiona McLeod referred to Lucky2BHere, a charity based in Skye that is undertaking tremendous work not only around AEDs but around CPR training for school pupils. Work is also being done by Chest, Heart and Stroke Scotland with Education Scotland on developing a national emergency life-support education resource that can be used in classrooms as part of the health and wellbeing part of the curriculum for excellence.
Technology has a lot to give in support of addressing this issue, but we must keep it within the wider context of educating our young people in how to carry out CPR as and when it is appropriate. The work that the Scottish Government is doing with the British Heart Foundation will support the delivery of that in schools throughout the country.
I hope that that has given members some assurance about the work that we are undertaking to ensure that publicly available defibrillators are properly mapped and are more widely available in areas where they can be most appropriately used, alongside our support for the training of school pupils in the basics of CPR.
Meeting closed at 17:43.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The final item of business today is a members’ business debate on motion S4M-06362, in the name of Margaret Mitchell, on automatic external defibrillators in...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
The campaign for AEDs, or automatic external defibrillators, in Scotland is run by first-aiders Laura and Paul Macadam-Slater, who briefed MSPs about the iss...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Excuse me, Mrs Mitchell. Could I stop you for a moment? People who are leaving the gallery should do so quietly. Parliament is in session.
Margaret Mitchell
Con
The survival chances of people who are affected by cardiac arrest decrease by 14 per cent for every minute without defibrillation. Furthermore, 70 per cent o...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Thank you very much. I apologise for the earlier interruption.I ask for four-minute speeches, as we are quite tight for time.17:12
Aileen McLeod (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
First, I congratulate Margaret Mitchell on securing the debate. I must also give my apologies, as I will have to leave the chamber before the minister respon...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
I congratulate Margaret Mitchell on lodging this important motion and I look forward to the rest of the debate, including the minister’s speech, because the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I must ask you to conclude.
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
I ought to add that part of the training is about CPR, which might also be required. That wider education of young people is crucial, but having the devices ...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I, too, congratulate my colleague Margaret Mitchell on securing the debate so that we can acknowledge the work of the AEDs in Scotland campaign, which seeks ...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
I am sure that it is a great relief to members that the Minister for Public Health is here to respond to the debate. As I recall, he was a member of Scotland...
Siobhan McMahon (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I congratulate Margaret Mitchell on bringing the debate to the Parliament.I have spoken in the Parliament about the use of AEDs in Scotland, so I welcome the...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I, too, thank Margaret Mitchell for bringing the debate to the Parliament. In following Siobhan McMahon, I remember her members’ business debate in November ...
The Minister for Public Health (Michael Matheson)
SNP
As others have done, I congratulate Margaret Mitchell on securing time for this important debate.The sudden and unexpected death of a young person that has b...