Committee
Justice Sub-Committee on Policing 31 October 2013
31 Oct 2013 · S4 · Justice Sub-Committee on Policing
Item of business
Local Policing
Chief Constable Sir Stephen House (Police Scotland)
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I agree with virtually everything in the question. There is no doubt that the presence of a police station or police office and a front counter is part of an engagement policy and contact with the local community. There is no doubt about that at all.However, I will just set our proposals in context. The consultation period ends today, but even if we were we to implement everything that we have suggested, 70 per cent of our current public counters would remain open to the public. It is important that I say that. We have 214 public counters throughout the country and we have identified 65 for which our proposal is—I stress that it is a proposal—that there would be no service. There would be reduced opening hours at a further 75 public counters; at 53, the opening hours would be unchanged; and at 21, the opening hours would be increased. I know that members know this, but I want to get it on the record because it has not been covered particularly clearly in the media: this is not about closing stations but about public contact at the police station.We think that public counters are an integral part of our engagement with the public, but we also believe that we need to ensure that we keep up with society. There is absolutely no doubt that we have seen significant changes and drop-offs in the number of people visiting front counters. I will try to illustrate that. I am happy to let members have copies of a completely unsolicited email that was sent to one of my chief inspectors by a member of staff who has taken voluntary redundancy from a public counter post. I will not name where it is, because I do not want to identify the individual.In the email, the member of staff says that she is going because of the workload and that she has received a good offer. She says:“I did not take this course of action lightly but having experienced a vast reduction in workload over the years, it seemed to me only a matter of time before this happened. We have also been constantly warned for the past three years that this may happen ... The workload has been affected for a variety of reasons, the first being the advent of the Force Contact Centre taking away a huge percentage of phone calls to the front office”.That is specific to where she works, but it has happened in many parts of the country.The vast bulk of the public who contact the police do so via the telephone. If, as part of a telephone conversation, they say that they would like the police to come round to their home address, officers will arrange that and will do it.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Item 2 is local policing. I ask the committee to try to conclude this item by 2.10 at the latest so that we have time to consider our work programme. We will...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
Good afternoon, panel. One of the main policy objectives behind police reform was“to strengthen the connection between services and communities”—that is what...
Chief Constable Sir Stephen House (Police Scotland)
I agree with virtually everything in the question. There is no doubt that the presence of a police station or police office and a front counter is part of an...
John Finnie
Ind
If consultation had taken place at ward level, what you say would have been borne out, because people’s experience is that they generally use the telephone o...
Chief Constable House
When we look back on things, we can always say that maybe we could have done them a little better, but I must defend my organisation and the staff who undert...
The Convener
SNP
I accept what you say about staff, but I think that the question was about the public at large—am I correct?
John Finnie
Ind
Yes—the question was also about the opportunity for engagement that could have arisen.
Chief Constable House
I apologise.
John Finnie
Ind
Apart from hearing that a big bad boy in Glasgow is closing everything, I am being sold the idea that—ironically—this is a good-news story, because across th...
Chief Constable House
I am happy to take responsibility for the fact that we might have gone on too negative an attack. I say that because we realised that people would be concern...
John Finnie
Ind
Has that approach reinforced the idea that the decision is one that is made by someone in Glasgow rather than a decision that is made in a local community’s ...
Chief Constable House
I guess that it has. I do not want to get too philosophical too early, but this is also about leadership. The development is important and, taken in the roun...
John Finnie
Ind
I understand that.The situation makes it awkward for proponents to say, “Look—there will be this local consultation.” The national consultation has not remov...
Superintendent Craig Naylor (Police Scotland)
The local policing plans are very much about the divisional commander engaging with local communities, community safety partnerships, community planning part...
Chief Constable House
I stress that this is a consultation process. In effect, it ends today, and we will reflect on the responses that we have received. I think that we have had ...
John Finnie
Ind
Finally, on the proposal that there be a window, for argument’s sake, you said that closures are proposed for areas where the station would be retained. The ...
Chief Constable House
Sorry, are you saying that we will keep a place open where it is very quiet?
John Finnie
Ind
It has been suggested to me that if a station remains, surely someone could just chap at the window and whoever is through the back would answer them.
Chief Constable House
Yes. I understand that. Again, policing is about dealing with society and humanity. If the locals know well enough that the cop is in there because they can ...
The Convener
SNP
Margaret Mitchell and Graeme Pearson both want to come in on the issue of police front counters, so we will exhaust that area first.
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Good afternoon, gentlemen. Can I press you a little bit on the consultation itself and on exactly how extensive it was and what methods were used to engage t...
Chief Constable House
We did not engage external consultants to carry out a big, fancy process. We looked at the consultations, work and analysis that had already been done in a n...
Superintendent Naylor
Yes, in four forces.
Chief Constable House
In the four legacy forces where that had not been done, we commissioned some up-to-date work. However, I do not want people to get carried away about the wor...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
I will just stop you there, chief constable. I think that you are talking about the review; I am asking about how widespread the public consultation was.As I...
Chief Constable House
Again, we are still in that consultation process because it has not—
Margaret Mitchell
Con
It closes today.
Chief Constable House
Yes, it closes today.
Margaret Mitchell
Con
So how has Police Scotland engaged with the public in the consultation?
Chief Constable House
As you suggested, we got a certain amount of newspaper and media coverage. I have done a large number of media interviews about the consultation, and we have...