Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 10 December 2013
10 Dec 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Human Rights
I am pleased to close for Scottish Labour in this short but important debate on Scotland’s national action plan for human rights and concur with members’ comments about the appropriateness of its following the tributes to Nelson Mandela, who did so much to fight for human rights and, later on in his life, the rights of children.
I welcome the opportunity that is provided by the debate to promote human rights in a positive way. Alex Johnstone referred to the public perception of human rights; unfortunately, some right-wing politicians and certain sections of the UK media that support them have promulgated the view that human rights are all about the rights of bad people. Some have actually said that our obligation should be abandoned; indeed, I thought that Theresa May herself had suggested as much.
It is also unfortunate that media attention on human rights focused this weekend on those of a convicted criminal—in this case, a murderer’s claim to conjugal rights—and his successful application for legal aid instead of, on this day in particular, reflecting on why the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly in 1948. That arose because of the horrendous abuse on the grounds of religion, race, nationality and sexual orientation that had taken place in Nazi Germany—a country not unlike Britain; a western country, like us, but one in which human rights were abandoned—and the recognition that it was necessary to provide globally recognised definitions of the rights to which all human beings are entitled.
The development of Scotland’s national action plan is in line with the United Nations’ recommendation that national action plans should be developed and adopted by each country. The recommendations were made as part of the Vienna declaration and programme of action some 20 years ago. Although it is good that Scotland is the first country in the United Kingdom to have developed a national action plan, we are all a little bit behind the game in taking 20 years to do that. However, I congratulate the SHRC for facilitating the process of development of the plan. It was developed through the participation of a range of organisations, which identified three outcomes: understanding and empowerment of individuals to claim their rights; tackling injustice and improving lives; and delivering on our international obligations.
I was disappointed with the minister’s contribution in her opening speech, because she seemed to use it to talk about the constitutional arrangements within the United Kingdom. As John Finnie said, the relevance of the national action plan is not about whether people vote yes next year. In fact, I felt that the minister’s speech was self-congratulatory in tone in talking about the wonderful legislation that we have passed in this Parliament. It was recognised by those who developed SNAP that the plan was not all about legislation. We pass good legislation in the Scottish Parliament, but when it comes to translating that into embedding human rights in the provision of public services and individuals’ understanding their rights, that is where we do not do so well. Just talking about what a wonderful job the Government is doing was not taking the opportunity of the debate to discuss what is actually in the plan.
The amendment makes a practical suggestion regarding how we can protect today the rights of a group of women in Scotland, but Malcolm Chisholm referred to a load of other actions that need to be taken regarding the rights of women and girls. I am sure that some of those actions will be discussed next week.
The implementation of SNAP is a process of cultural change, making respect for human dignity central to public services and applying a person-centred approach. That approach in service delivery is not new, because there are already developments in health and social care services, such as personalisation, which seek to involve clients in the design of the services that they receive and to allow them to choose and have control of the delivery of the services. However, this is an opportunity to think about the extension of the principle into other areas of public services.
As I said, the public perception seems to be that human rights is about protecting criminals. However, it is obvious that victims also have human rights, and a person-centred approach has implications for our justice system. We will discuss some of that in the context of the Victims and Witnesses (Scotland) Bill later this week. However, a person-centred human rights approach has implications for not just the court system but the system of policing in Scotland. Some of those will need to be reflected on as we go forward.
Health and Social Care Alliance Scotland made the point in its briefing that the human rights approach has important implications for the delivery of health and social care. People with disabilities and long-term conditions should be treated as human beings rather than just as people who suffer from a condition that requires health and social care interventions; and the outcomes that they desire for themselves must be taken into account when services are designed. Alison McInnes made an important point about the rights of mental health patients.
Jamie Hepburn referred to Community Land Scotland. I was quite interested in its observation that a human rights-based approach has implications for land reform and the community right to buy, in protecting not just the human rights of the landowner but the rights of communities to have access to land and to create a sustainable future for themselves.
I will touch very briefly on human rights for workers. My colleague Neil Findlay would have liked to take part in the debate to talk about blacklisting. There was not time for that, but blacklisting is a human rights abuse in that workers have been denied employment because of their political views or trade union activity, or because they have raised health and safety concerns.
We need to take ownership of the progress of SNAP and we need to stand up to those voices that portray human rights as a negative issue. We also need to be proactive in discussing the situation of the rights of convicted criminals. We must have a mature and sensible debate about that rather than just react to things that the media brings to us.
Overall, I welcome the publication of SNAP, which has vital implications for not just how we legislate but, crucially, how public services are designed. Most important of all, perhaps, is that for the approach to be successful it will require cultural change.
I welcome the opportunity that is provided by the debate to promote human rights in a positive way. Alex Johnstone referred to the public perception of human rights; unfortunately, some right-wing politicians and certain sections of the UK media that support them have promulgated the view that human rights are all about the rights of bad people. Some have actually said that our obligation should be abandoned; indeed, I thought that Theresa May herself had suggested as much.
It is also unfortunate that media attention on human rights focused this weekend on those of a convicted criminal—in this case, a murderer’s claim to conjugal rights—and his successful application for legal aid instead of, on this day in particular, reflecting on why the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly in 1948. That arose because of the horrendous abuse on the grounds of religion, race, nationality and sexual orientation that had taken place in Nazi Germany—a country not unlike Britain; a western country, like us, but one in which human rights were abandoned—and the recognition that it was necessary to provide globally recognised definitions of the rights to which all human beings are entitled.
The development of Scotland’s national action plan is in line with the United Nations’ recommendation that national action plans should be developed and adopted by each country. The recommendations were made as part of the Vienna declaration and programme of action some 20 years ago. Although it is good that Scotland is the first country in the United Kingdom to have developed a national action plan, we are all a little bit behind the game in taking 20 years to do that. However, I congratulate the SHRC for facilitating the process of development of the plan. It was developed through the participation of a range of organisations, which identified three outcomes: understanding and empowerment of individuals to claim their rights; tackling injustice and improving lives; and delivering on our international obligations.
I was disappointed with the minister’s contribution in her opening speech, because she seemed to use it to talk about the constitutional arrangements within the United Kingdom. As John Finnie said, the relevance of the national action plan is not about whether people vote yes next year. In fact, I felt that the minister’s speech was self-congratulatory in tone in talking about the wonderful legislation that we have passed in this Parliament. It was recognised by those who developed SNAP that the plan was not all about legislation. We pass good legislation in the Scottish Parliament, but when it comes to translating that into embedding human rights in the provision of public services and individuals’ understanding their rights, that is where we do not do so well. Just talking about what a wonderful job the Government is doing was not taking the opportunity of the debate to discuss what is actually in the plan.
The amendment makes a practical suggestion regarding how we can protect today the rights of a group of women in Scotland, but Malcolm Chisholm referred to a load of other actions that need to be taken regarding the rights of women and girls. I am sure that some of those actions will be discussed next week.
The implementation of SNAP is a process of cultural change, making respect for human dignity central to public services and applying a person-centred approach. That approach in service delivery is not new, because there are already developments in health and social care services, such as personalisation, which seek to involve clients in the design of the services that they receive and to allow them to choose and have control of the delivery of the services. However, this is an opportunity to think about the extension of the principle into other areas of public services.
As I said, the public perception seems to be that human rights is about protecting criminals. However, it is obvious that victims also have human rights, and a person-centred approach has implications for our justice system. We will discuss some of that in the context of the Victims and Witnesses (Scotland) Bill later this week. However, a person-centred human rights approach has implications for not just the court system but the system of policing in Scotland. Some of those will need to be reflected on as we go forward.
Health and Social Care Alliance Scotland made the point in its briefing that the human rights approach has important implications for the delivery of health and social care. People with disabilities and long-term conditions should be treated as human beings rather than just as people who suffer from a condition that requires health and social care interventions; and the outcomes that they desire for themselves must be taken into account when services are designed. Alison McInnes made an important point about the rights of mental health patients.
Jamie Hepburn referred to Community Land Scotland. I was quite interested in its observation that a human rights-based approach has implications for land reform and the community right to buy, in protecting not just the human rights of the landowner but the rights of communities to have access to land and to create a sustainable future for themselves.
I will touch very briefly on human rights for workers. My colleague Neil Findlay would have liked to take part in the debate to talk about blacklisting. There was not time for that, but blacklisting is a human rights abuse in that workers have been denied employment because of their political views or trade union activity, or because they have raised health and safety concerns.
We need to take ownership of the progress of SNAP and we need to stand up to those voices that portray human rights as a negative issue. We also need to be proactive in discussing the situation of the rights of convicted criminals. We must have a mature and sensible debate about that rather than just react to things that the media brings to us.
Overall, I welcome the publication of SNAP, which has vital implications for not just how we legislate but, crucially, how public services are designed. Most important of all, perhaps, is that for the approach to be successful it will require cultural change.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-08544, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on human rights.14:38
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Roseanna Cunningham)
SNP
Today marks the launch of “Scotland’s National Action Plan for Human Rights: 2013-2017”—Scotland’s first national action plan for human rights—and I am delig...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I ask the minister for clarification on that point. Would an independent Scotland take the Human Rights Act 1998 and embed it in the Scottish constitution or...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
We would be looking at exactly the kinds of rights that most countries in Europe and the wider world regard as human rights. I do not want to disappoint Jenn...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
Would the minister care to commend Mary Robinson—who is a former President of a small country: Ireland—for her significant contribution to human rights in re...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
I am sure that Stewart Stevenson would expect me to endorse that, as I have met Mary Robinson and know the huge impact that she had internationally—not just ...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
It is particularly appropriate that we gather in the chamber today on international human rights day, and on a day that is marked by such a momentous occasio...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I thank Jenny Marra for taking an intervention. I know of her interest in the subject. When I was a member of the Equal Opportunities Committee we inquired i...
Jenny Marra
Lab
I got the numbers from the Minister for Public Health, Michael Matheson, who said just a few weeks ago in the chamber that 3,000 women are at risk in Scotlan...
Jean Urquhart (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
I think that everybody will agree with what Jenny Marra said about the crime that she has described. However, forced marriages are still happening in Scotlan...
Jenny Marra
Lab
Presiding Officer, can I have a little more time to address that?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I will tell you when you should stop.
Jenny Marra
Lab
Thank you.We have lodged our amendment because I do not believe that FGM is specifically mentioned in the human rights strategy and, given recent press repor...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I welcome the publication of the national action plan for human rights. There is certainly a strong element of consensus on the topic across the chamber and—...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
About 15 years ago, the Northern Constabulary issued a book to young people about knowing your rights when dealing with the police. Is it not a positive thin...
Alex Johnstone
Con
It is, of course, positive that that sort of thing happens, but we must remember that we have to take the public along with us. If we concentrate merely on t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
Conclude, please, Mr Johnstone.
Alex Johnstone
Con
As we come to the end of the opening speeches, I look forward to an in-depth discussion about the action plan, and to summing up at the end of the debate.15:03
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
SNP
It is right to have the debate on this, the 65th anniversary of the signing of “The Universal Declaration of Human Rights”. As the minister said, it is appos...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
It is particularly important that we are debating Scotland’s first human rights action plan on international human rights day and the day on which we remembe...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
I join colleagues in celebrating international human rights day and in welcoming the publication of Scotland’s national action plan on human rights. I pay tr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I remind members to use full names when they are referring to colleagues.15:15
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
First, I congratulate the Scottish Human Rights Commission on the publication of its national action plan. It is significant that it had Scottish Government ...
Alex Johnstone
Con
It should be made clear that in what has been an interesting if short debate we will not have time to raise a number of points. Nevertheless, as John Finnie ...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to close for Scottish Labour in this short but important debate on Scotland’s national action plan for human rights and concur with members’ com...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Before I call Roseanna Cunningham to respond to the debate, I advise members that this afternoon’s debates are on a follow-on basis. I remind members who wis...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
It is amazing how wide a variety of views can be encompassed even in a short debate such as this. Practically all the speeches have been constructive in addr...
Jenny Marra
Lab
Will the minister commit to voting tonight for a strategy on female genital mutilation?
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
I will come to the Labour amendment later in my speech.The Government has enjoyed a productive, constructive relationship with the commission on a wide range...
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
I am very sorry to hear what the minister is saying. Does she understand that Jenny Marra’s addendum accepts all the wording of the minister’s motion, but th...