Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 10 September 2013
10 Sep 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Historic Environment Strategy
I thank the cabinet secretary for that intervention. Clearly, we could go on listing the other sites for which fantastic numbers have been announced recently. Those figures show just how much we are punching well above our weight when it comes to the historic environment, and I warmly welcome that.
King James IV was keen on tapestries, so he would have been fascinated by the great tapestry of Scotland—currently on display in the Parliament’s visitor entrance—not just because of its artistic excellence, but because its panels remind us of who we are and where we are going. He would surely have approved of the historic environment strategy for Scotland, but he would have wanted a strategy that not only reflects the collaborative work of the cultural organisations mentioned in the motion but reached out to the international community, too.
There is no doubt about the general welcome for the importance of the strategy, although we note the disquiet in some quarters about what is the appropriate definition of the historic environment. That is a point well made. If the strategy is to be wholly clear and to avoid the ambiguity that sometimes comes with having too general a definition, and if we are to agree an effective strategy, we need to know exactly what it is that we are talking about.
Likewise, concerns have been expressed in local government quarters about how to ensure that there is a synergy between the overall Government policy and its interpretation at a local level, particularly when the local historic environments are so diverse. It is clear from a number of submissions that it will be a challenge for Scotland’s cultural sector to work under a tight regime of budget cuts. There needs to be a better relationship between local government—particularly some planning departments—and any new body.
In turn, that raises questions about how we ensure that planning authorities have access to the appropriate expertise—a point that has been made already—so that any planning decisions are made with the fullest knowledge of the relevant facts. We know only too well from other aspects of Government policy, whether in this country or elsewhere, that fierce debates can arise when planners are at odds with conservationists. Therefore, I can well understand why there might be some scope for difficulty if such matters are not carefully thought through.
Patricia Ferguson rightly raised some concerns about the merger, which I know my predecessor Annabel Goldie shared. Clearly, there is a need to discuss issues such as rebranding. The traditional tribalism or deep-seated rivalry between the two existing bodies has been mentioned and needs to be addressed. That difficult political and financial matter will require sensitive handling.
King James IV was keen on tapestries, so he would have been fascinated by the great tapestry of Scotland—currently on display in the Parliament’s visitor entrance—not just because of its artistic excellence, but because its panels remind us of who we are and where we are going. He would surely have approved of the historic environment strategy for Scotland, but he would have wanted a strategy that not only reflects the collaborative work of the cultural organisations mentioned in the motion but reached out to the international community, too.
There is no doubt about the general welcome for the importance of the strategy, although we note the disquiet in some quarters about what is the appropriate definition of the historic environment. That is a point well made. If the strategy is to be wholly clear and to avoid the ambiguity that sometimes comes with having too general a definition, and if we are to agree an effective strategy, we need to know exactly what it is that we are talking about.
Likewise, concerns have been expressed in local government quarters about how to ensure that there is a synergy between the overall Government policy and its interpretation at a local level, particularly when the local historic environments are so diverse. It is clear from a number of submissions that it will be a challenge for Scotland’s cultural sector to work under a tight regime of budget cuts. There needs to be a better relationship between local government—particularly some planning departments—and any new body.
In turn, that raises questions about how we ensure that planning authorities have access to the appropriate expertise—a point that has been made already—so that any planning decisions are made with the fullest knowledge of the relevant facts. We know only too well from other aspects of Government policy, whether in this country or elsewhere, that fierce debates can arise when planners are at odds with conservationists. Therefore, I can well understand why there might be some scope for difficulty if such matters are not carefully thought through.
Patricia Ferguson rightly raised some concerns about the merger, which I know my predecessor Annabel Goldie shared. Clearly, there is a need to discuss issues such as rebranding. The traditional tribalism or deep-seated rivalry between the two existing bodies has been mentioned and needs to be addressed. That difficult political and financial matter will require sensitive handling.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-07622, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on Scotland’s historic environment—the way forward.14:24
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
I would like to start with a quote from “A Herbal” by the late Seamus Heaney:As between clear blue and cloud,Between haystack and sunset sky,Between oak tree...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Given the impact of climate change and the increasing cost of repairing and maintaining the historic tenements in our cities, will the minister review the op...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I hear what the member says—I think that she makes an extremely important point. A great deal of investment has to take place in the pre-1919 buildings. That...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I was just wondering whether the minister was going to make a statement in terms of an increase in the budget, particularly since the Commonwealth games are ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I remind members to speak through the chair.
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I am sure that Sandra White welcomed the investment in the statues on the Kelvin walkway. As the member well knows, a substantial investment was announced in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I remind members that, if they are participating in the debate, they should be in the chamber for the start of the speeches.14:41
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Lab
In opening the debate for Labour, I endorse the cabinet secretary’s sentiments concerning John Bellany. He will be sadly missed, but he has left a significan...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I am sure that, as the bill passes through Parliament, we will have plenty of opportunities in committee and in the chamber to debate some of these issues, b...
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I am sure that that is true. Having read some of the commentary, I have understood what the organisations have said, but there is still a kernel of doubt lin...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I cannot talk about the budget tomorrow, but I can reassure the member that over the last period, between 2011-12 and 2013-14, expenditure on properties and ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
You are approaching your last minute, Ms Ferguson.
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer.I appreciate that point and I accept that the historic environment is a very expensive sector in which to work and operate. Howe...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for her good wishes—and Patricia Ferguson for hers, just prior to the debate. Culture is very close to my heart—not least becau...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
Only last night in Linlithgow, I heard a fantastic presentation by one of our local historians, Bruce Jamieson, about Linlithgow’s connection to James IV. In...
Liz Smith
Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for that intervention. Clearly, we could go on listing the other sites for which fantastic numbers have been announced recently...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
On the merger, there is some way to travel in terms of parliamentary scrutiny, but it is important that we put the staff first. Over a long period, the staff...
Liz Smith
Con
The cabinet secretary makes a fair point. There has been some support for the merger in various quarters, but Patricia Ferguson made some good points about t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We turn to the open debate, with speeches of a maximum of seven minutes, which should include any interventions.15:02
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP)
SNP
There is no denying just how blessed visually we are here in Scotland. We are blessed with breathtaking scenery and with the historic environment. We owe so ...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
The member makes an important point. We have supported long-distance travel for visits from places that are an hour and a half’s travel from some of our key ...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I absolutely agree with that.In passing, I recognise the tremendous work that Historic Scotland is doing to retain and safeguard the traditional skills that ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I must keep members strictly to their seven minutes. I call Claire Baker, to be followed by Joan McAlpine.15:09
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to speak in today’s debate on Scotland’s historic environment. I will spend some time highlighting Fife’s assets as an illustration of Scotland’...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I am delighted to have accepted an invitation from David Torrance MSP to visit Wemyss caves. That visit will happen in the next couple of weeks.The issue has...
Claire Baker
Lab
I was aware of the cabinet secretary’s upcoming visit and was about to give it a positive mention.Earlier, the cabinet secretary talked a bit about active ci...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I remind members that they must keep to their seven minutes, or other speakers later in the debate will lose time. 15:16
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the Government’s ambitious strategy for Scotland’s historic environment over the next 10 to 15 years. I am delighted that we have the opportunity t...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
SNP
Voltaire famously said,“We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civilisation”,and we can see why when we look at the extraordinary historic environment from...