Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 25 April 2013
25 Apr 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Land and Buildings Transaction Tax (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I welcome this stage 1 debate. The bill is, of course, the first of three bills arising as a consequence of the Scotland Act 2012, and I look forward to scrutinising the other bills when they come before the Finance Committee.
I very much welcome the bill’s proposed changes to the scope of stamp duty land tax or, as it will become, LBTT. The proposal to move from the slab structure of taxation to a progressive tax structure has been welcomed across the board. That has been welcomed by just about everyone who has given evidence to the committee, because of course a progressive structure has a greater relation to the ability to pay and deals with market distortion. Just now, there is a huge disincentive for builders to build properties that are valued around the margins of the thresholds or for property to be put on the market around the margins, but the new structure will remove that disincentive.
I recognise that there is on-going dialogue or debate about the timing of the announcement of the new bands. We need to be careful, because doing that too late or too early could influence market behaviour. The cabinet secretary is right to be cautious about that.
The bill will also bring modifications to reliefs and exemptions, including the withdrawal of sub-sale relief arrangements. I concede that, when the committee took evidence, views on that proposal were more mixed. However, on balance, the bill has got it right in that regard. Clearly, one of the drivers for the legislation is to reduce tax avoidance, and the various reliefs set out in the old tax regime have allowed tax avoidance to arise. I therefore welcome the proposed changes.
I want to raise two issues in particular, if time allows. The first is relief for zero-carbon homes and similar reliefs, and the second is charities relief. I started the process of assessing the bill by being quite sympathetic to the idea that there should be some form of relief to encourage environmental improvements in homes. Organisations out there gave evidence in support of that. However, we should bear in mind the point that Homes for Scotland made, which is that very few people buy their home with environmental improvement uppermost in their mind. Certainly, when I bought my home, its energy efficiency was not particularly uppermost in my mind.
I take on board the cabinet secretary’s point that there may be other, more appropriate ways of incentivising the use of energy efficiency measures than doing so through the bill. If sensible measures are proposed, the committee will consider them. However, on balance, the bill has it just about right at the moment.
Charities relief will ultimately affect very few transactions in any year. However, it took up some of the time that the committee spent on considering the bill at stage 1. I very much support the element of LBTT that will offer relief for charities. Organisations out there doing charitable work should be supported in that way. In essence, the relief will mean that the Scottish taxpayer will subsidise charities, so we must have the right mechanism for charities to benefit. Brodies solicitors and ICAS suggested that charities relief should be available to organisations whose charitable status is granted by HM Revenue and Customs, but I have some concerns about that, notwithstanding the good relations that I am sure exist between the Scottish Government and HMRC.
HMRC is not answerable to this Parliament on a legislative basis or to the Scottish Government on an executive basis. For that reason, OSCR is a much more appropriate organisation for charities to be registered with in order to benefit from charities relief. Some expressed concern that foreign charities cannot register with OSCR, but we have had clear evidence that section 14 of the Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Act 2005 allows for foreign charities to register with OSCR. Concern was also expressed that registering is an onerous task for charities. However, the requirement to register with OSCR already exists, so it will be no more onerous for a charity to register for charities relief purposes. If a foreign charity wants to get a subsidy from the Scottish taxpayer, the least that it can do is register as a charity.
Let me conclude by focusing briefly on an issue that the convener of the committee mentioned—the block grant adjustment.
I very much welcome the bill’s proposed changes to the scope of stamp duty land tax or, as it will become, LBTT. The proposal to move from the slab structure of taxation to a progressive tax structure has been welcomed across the board. That has been welcomed by just about everyone who has given evidence to the committee, because of course a progressive structure has a greater relation to the ability to pay and deals with market distortion. Just now, there is a huge disincentive for builders to build properties that are valued around the margins of the thresholds or for property to be put on the market around the margins, but the new structure will remove that disincentive.
I recognise that there is on-going dialogue or debate about the timing of the announcement of the new bands. We need to be careful, because doing that too late or too early could influence market behaviour. The cabinet secretary is right to be cautious about that.
The bill will also bring modifications to reliefs and exemptions, including the withdrawal of sub-sale relief arrangements. I concede that, when the committee took evidence, views on that proposal were more mixed. However, on balance, the bill has got it right in that regard. Clearly, one of the drivers for the legislation is to reduce tax avoidance, and the various reliefs set out in the old tax regime have allowed tax avoidance to arise. I therefore welcome the proposed changes.
I want to raise two issues in particular, if time allows. The first is relief for zero-carbon homes and similar reliefs, and the second is charities relief. I started the process of assessing the bill by being quite sympathetic to the idea that there should be some form of relief to encourage environmental improvements in homes. Organisations out there gave evidence in support of that. However, we should bear in mind the point that Homes for Scotland made, which is that very few people buy their home with environmental improvement uppermost in their mind. Certainly, when I bought my home, its energy efficiency was not particularly uppermost in my mind.
I take on board the cabinet secretary’s point that there may be other, more appropriate ways of incentivising the use of energy efficiency measures than doing so through the bill. If sensible measures are proposed, the committee will consider them. However, on balance, the bill has it just about right at the moment.
Charities relief will ultimately affect very few transactions in any year. However, it took up some of the time that the committee spent on considering the bill at stage 1. I very much support the element of LBTT that will offer relief for charities. Organisations out there doing charitable work should be supported in that way. In essence, the relief will mean that the Scottish taxpayer will subsidise charities, so we must have the right mechanism for charities to benefit. Brodies solicitors and ICAS suggested that charities relief should be available to organisations whose charitable status is granted by HM Revenue and Customs, but I have some concerns about that, notwithstanding the good relations that I am sure exist between the Scottish Government and HMRC.
HMRC is not answerable to this Parliament on a legislative basis or to the Scottish Government on an executive basis. For that reason, OSCR is a much more appropriate organisation for charities to be registered with in order to benefit from charities relief. Some expressed concern that foreign charities cannot register with OSCR, but we have had clear evidence that section 14 of the Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Act 2005 allows for foreign charities to register with OSCR. Concern was also expressed that registering is an onerous task for charities. However, the requirement to register with OSCR already exists, so it will be no more onerous for a charity to register for charities relief purposes. If a foreign charity wants to get a subsidy from the Scottish taxpayer, the least that it can do is register as a charity.
Let me conclude by focusing briefly on an issue that the convener of the committee mentioned—the block grant adjustment.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
Good afternoon. The first item of business this afternoon is a stage 1 debate on motion S4M-06294, in the name of John Swinney, on the Land and Buildings Tra...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney)
SNP
The Scotland Act 2012 devolves responsibility for taxes on land and property transactions and disposal to landfill to the Scottish Parliament from April 2015...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I am a member of the Public Audit Committee, which has been looking into the Auditor General for Scotland’s report on Registers of Scotland’s IT system. Para...
John Swinney
SNP
I would describe the position as work in progress. As I set out to Parliament last June, Registers of Scotland will be the collection organisation for the ne...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
SNP
I am pleased to highlight key areas that the Finance Committee considered following its stage 1 evidence taking.The Scotland Act 2012 devolves a range of tax...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
The land and buildings transaction tax is, I believe, Scotland’s first new tax in 300 years. It stems from the conclusions of the Calman commission, establis...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Ken Macintosh
Lab
I hope that Mr Mason can demonstrate a sense of humour.
John Mason
SNP
Does the member accept that, if the overall indication is that the effect will be broadly neutral, the room for manoeuvre is not huge? The position is not th...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
Indeed. I was just about to suggest to the cabinet secretary that, if he indicates to the committee and to Parliament when he has agreed on a date, so that w...
John Swinney
SNP
The point that I advanced at the committee is that I was not persuaded by a relief for a property transaction whereby the purchaser got the benefit of an inv...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s approach. I have sympathy for the non-renewal of a scheme for which there were no successful applications in Scotland.Howev...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
Does the member accept that, given the progressive nature of the tax, the proposed measure would help those who are further up the ladder more? Those are the...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
Mr MacKenzie raises an interesting point about our desire as a country to reduce carbon emissions. If carbon emissions on larger homes are greater, we need t...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con)
Con
The Scottish Conservatives support the general principles of the bill and we will vote for it at decision time. Much of the bill and much of what the cabinet...
John Swinney
SNP
I confirm that there will be an indication of the licences that are included in the scope. The bill will specify which licences will be covered rather than s...
Gavin Brown
Con
That is helpful, and it is probably the right way to go about it, so I am even more encouraged on licences than I was to begin with.Before I get too carried ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We now move to the open debate. I call Jamie Hepburn, to be followed by Malcolm Chisholm. We are a bit tight for time, so I give Mr Hepburn up to six minutes...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome this stage 1 debate. The bill is, of course, the first of three bills arising as a consequence of the Scotland Act 2012, and I look forward to scru...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
You have 30 seconds.
Jamie Hepburn
SNP
The block grant will be reduced on a one-off basis for LBTT. We have to get that right. I say to Mr Macintosh that how fairly the Treasury plays on the matte...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to take part in this landmark debate, in which we are considering a tax bill for the first time in the history of the Scottish Parliament. I hop...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
Although it closes a loophole, on 21 March 2012, the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced that, with immediate effect, there would be a 15 per cent stamp du...
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
That is a fair point and I would not disagree.Ensuring that there is no tax avoidance is an important aspect of the bill. The general provision, which will b...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
It is encouraging that there is widespread welcome for the replacement of SDLT with a simpler and more progressive tax, and especially for the replacement of...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Given that John Mason has expressed his excitement about today, will he express some contrition about opposing the Calman commission and the Scotland Act 201...
John Mason
SNP
That question is not quite on subject. Given that Calman proposed a system of block grant reduction that would have damaged Scotland, I have to say that I am...
Michael McMahon (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab)
Lab
This is not the first time I have taken part in a stage 1 debate in which there has been very little to say that has not been said already by the time I have...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I rise as a former member of the Finance Committee. Although I was not part of the stage 1 deliberations on the Land and Buildings Transaction Tax (Scotland)...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
I, too, welcome today’s stage 1 debate on the first of a series of bills that are being introduced as a result of a number of tax-raising powers being devolv...