Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 19 March 2013
19 Mar 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Iraq Invasion (10th Anniversary)
I read the debate. I remember that, according to the record, Johann Lamont was first up to advocate the war and question those who were arguing against it. Perhaps I can offer conclusive evidence on that very point. In that same debate, the then First Minister, Lord McConnell, summing up on the side of those who were going to vote against John McAllion’s amendment—his final appeal to gather support in this place—said:
“When our Prime Minister has recognised public concern and has moved to ask the UN to give Saddam Hussein one last chance, we should not undermine his efforts”.—[Official Report, 13 March 2003; c 16432.]
In other words, the then First Minister’s last appeal to gather support was for support for the Prime Minister. Incidentally, we note that that support was
“to give Saddam Hussein one last chance”
to stay in power, rendering rather foolish the suggestions that, 10 years later, the war can be justified on the removal of Saddam Hussein when, 10 years ago, people tried to justify it on weapons of mass destruction that did not exist.
Johann Lamont should, instead of following the lesson from Tony Blair 10 years ago, perhaps join her current leader or the then Deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott, who have recanted their support for war and who have accepted that the case was never made and that they were wrong to support it. I see Johann Lamont shaking her head. Does she want me to read out Lord Prescott’s remarks about why he was wrong to support the conflict?
At some point, I hope that Johann Lamont and the remaining 23 members of this Parliament of 129 who, for one reason or another, were misled into supporting an illegal conflict with incalculable consequences will, perhaps by voting for the motion today, find in themselves the courage and integrity to admit that mistake to the Scottish people.
We should reflect on what happened 10 years ago, for the best possible reason: to ensure that it cannot happen again. We should reflect that this Parliament—our Parliament, our nation’s Parliament—should take such decisions on behalf of the people. We should ensure that there is genuine parliamentary debate, with proper information coming before the Parliament before a decision is taken to take the country into conflict.
“When our Prime Minister has recognised public concern and has moved to ask the UN to give Saddam Hussein one last chance, we should not undermine his efforts”.—[Official Report, 13 March 2003; c 16432.]
In other words, the then First Minister’s last appeal to gather support was for support for the Prime Minister. Incidentally, we note that that support was
“to give Saddam Hussein one last chance”
to stay in power, rendering rather foolish the suggestions that, 10 years later, the war can be justified on the removal of Saddam Hussein when, 10 years ago, people tried to justify it on weapons of mass destruction that did not exist.
Johann Lamont should, instead of following the lesson from Tony Blair 10 years ago, perhaps join her current leader or the then Deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott, who have recanted their support for war and who have accepted that the case was never made and that they were wrong to support it. I see Johann Lamont shaking her head. Does she want me to read out Lord Prescott’s remarks about why he was wrong to support the conflict?
At some point, I hope that Johann Lamont and the remaining 23 members of this Parliament of 129 who, for one reason or another, were misled into supporting an illegal conflict with incalculable consequences will, perhaps by voting for the motion today, find in themselves the courage and integrity to admit that mistake to the Scottish people.
We should reflect on what happened 10 years ago, for the best possible reason: to ensure that it cannot happen again. We should reflect that this Parliament—our Parliament, our nation’s Parliament—should take such decisions on behalf of the people. We should ensure that there is genuine parliamentary debate, with proper information coming before the Parliament before a decision is taken to take the country into conflict.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-05981, in the name of Alex Salmond, on 10 years on from the invasion of Iraq.14:22
The First Minister (Alex Salmond)
SNP
In discussing the motion, we should reflect that tomorrow marks the 10th anniversary of the start of the war in Iraq. As we consider the lessons and implicat...
Margo MacDonald (Lothian) (Ind)
Ind
Although I agree that no Parliament should lend a hand to that, does the First Minister agree that a great number of people whose loyalty was found to be too...
The First Minister
SNP
I basically believe that to be case.
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
Will the First Minister give way?
The First Minister
SNP
I will answer Margo MacDonald first and then I will gladly give way to Johann Lamont.I was not in this place; I was in the House of Commons. I know people wh...
Johann Lamont
Lab
The First Minister ought not to describe other people’s motives in relation to how they vote in this place. I say for the record that when I voted as I did, ...
The First Minister
SNP
I read the debate. I remember that, according to the record, Johann Lamont was first up to advocate the war and question those who were arguing against it. P...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Will the First Minister give way?
The First Minister
SNP
No.We should reflect on the best way to fulfil our obligation, as good international citizens, to participate fully on the world stage—Interruption. I hear t...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Perhaps the First Minister, in his tone of considered reflection on the events of the past 10 years, will tell us why he believes that an independent Scotlan...
The First Minister
SNP
Because, as we know, the Prime Minister of the day distorted the intelligence that he had. We know that intelligence was presented that we were 45 minutes fr...
John Lamont (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
I begin by saying what barely needs to be said and pledging our unwavering support for UK personnel—military and peacekeeping—who have served and continue to...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
John Lamont
Con
I will give way later, but I want to make some progress.I state at the outset that 10 years on, the situation in Iraq is far from ideal. Violence levels rema...
Jim Eadie (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member is not giving way; resume your seat.
John Lamont
Con
For too long, international words of condemnation were unmatched by meaningful international action; for too long, the Iraqi people suffered under the very s...
The First Minister
SNP
Will the member give way?
John Lamont
Con
I will give way in a minute; let me finish my point. For too long, Kurds in the north and Shias in the south continued to fight a tyrant whom we ourselves sh...
The First Minister
SNP
Some of us who have consistently opposed Saddam Hussein’s murderous regime over the years remember that Tory ministers visited him to talk about arms months ...
John Lamont
Con
I did not say that. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order.
John Lamont
Con
I do not dispute that the situation is far from ideal today, but it is improving and it is better than it was. If it were a choice between Saddam Hussein and...
The Minister for Commonwealth Games and Sport (Shona Robison)
SNP
Will the member give way?
John Lamont
Con
I give way to the minister.
Shona Robison
SNP
Is the member able to tell us who armed Saddam Hussein to use those weapons against his own people? Would he like to tell us that?
John Lamont
Con
I am sure that Saddam Hussein had various sources of weaponry. That does not make it right that those actions were allowed to continue for as long as they we...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
When the sirens whined, we dived to the floor, struggling with our flak jackets and helmets, yet the local politicians carried on as if nothing had happened,...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
Listening to the speeches of John Lamont and Willie Rennie, I was struck by the seriousness with which they have engaged in reflecting after 10 years. I am d...