Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 24 April 2013
24 Apr 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Access to Justice
More than a year ago, I said that a hit list of court closures was being prepared and that my local court in Haddington was on it. The Cabinet Secretary for Justice said then that I was scaremongering and that there were no such plans. Sure enough, the hit list was published, and the cabinet secretary then said that there would be no closures without local consultation.
We marshalled more than 150 substantive submissions in evidence and we gathered thousands of signatures in opposition to closing Haddington’s courts. There were no submissions in favour of closure. What kind of local consultation weighs in the balance all evidence against no evidence and comes down on the side of no evidence at all? It is a sham, a deception and a disgrace.
I was not scaremongering, and the cabinet secretary was dissembling. Last week, he consigned my local court to the dustbin of history. History matters. Haddington has had courts of some kind for centuries. We have had lay justice there since the time of James VI. Local justice survived the siege of Haddington, Cromwell, the reformation, the treaty of union, two world wars and Margaret Thatcher. It seems, however, that it will not survive Kenny MacAskill.
Haddington court is busy, contrary to the impression that the cabinet secretary tried to create last week. It dealt with more civil cases than any of the other courts that are slated to close. More than 3,000 criminal cases were prosecuted there last year, and many community sentences and drug treatment and testing orders were monitored. Adults with incapacity applications alone soared by 70 per cent. As East Lothian has the fastest-growing population in Scotland, court work there can only increase.
Victims and witnesses will face considerable inconvenience in travelling to Edinburgh. Those seeking civil redress or involved in family actions face not only their own travel costs but up to £400 more to cover additional travelling time for their agents for each court appearance.
As Mr MacAskill well knows, family actions can involve as many as 12 such hearings. He might save small change in his budget, but my constituents will pay dearly. Local lawyers say that legal aid work might become financially unviable for them, which would undermine access to advice and cost local jobs.
Haddington citizens advice bureau believes that its representation of clients will be compromised. Ironically, Mr MacAskill chose that very CAB to launch the first LawWorks legal advice service in Scotland. He praised the CAB’s in-court advisers, some of whom are here today because they fear that their jobs will be gone tomorrow if he persists in closing the court.
As for justices of the peace, all but a handful of East Lothian JPs have made it clear that they will not be willing to serve in Edinburgh, which will have a knock-on effect for non-bench work such as signing warrants for police officers. Mind you, those police officers might not need any warrants, because they will be spending all their time travelling to and from Edinburgh or sitting around Edinburgh sheriff court instead of doing police work in East Lothian. That is what our share of those extra police officers will spend their time doing.
All that is being done to save £81,000 per annum—a figure that is disputed by forensic accountancy evidence that was submitted to the consultation, and most of which will anyway be pushed on to other public sector budgets.
The greatest harm in the proposals is the compromising of local access to justice and the abrogation of the principle that justice must be seen to be done and not dispensed at a distance. However, there is another kind of damage, too. Haddington is a county town with a proud history and the community is working hard to maintain its vibrancy. Only last week, the town market was successfully re-established. A trust has just been elected to regenerate the town. The county archives have come home to a magnificent new library. An employability hub has opened to boost local opportunity, and this Saturday our local radio station will take to the airwaves.
Now, the dead hand of the cabinet secretary is reaching out into the heart of Haddington to snuff the life out of one of our key institutions. He is not standing up for Scotland but stamping down on one of Scotland’s oldest towns. In this context, he often falls back on the example of his home town of Linlithgow. What he omits to say is that justice was not removed from West Lothian as a county. The administrative centre of West Lothian moved to Livingston and the court went with it. There is no suggestion of the provision of a court somewhere else in my county of East Lothian. Jobs will go, local shops and businesses will suffer and civic pride will be hurt.
The cabinet secretary’s amendment is as dishonest as his consultation. First, it pretends that the decision has somehow been forced on him by someone else, which is a ridiculous assertion, given the saving of £80,000. He then tries to present it as a modernisation of the court service.
The amendment is false and false again. It is the cabinet secretary’s decision and it was taken solely to balance his books without regard for principle, the wider impact or indeed the evidence. It is the casual, unwitting vandalism of the bean-counting bureaucrat. It is unworthy of a minister who is entrusted with the stewardship of Scottish justice and unbecoming of a Scottish Cabinet that is charged with protecting the wellbeing of Scotland’s towns and communities, such as Haddington.
We marshalled more than 150 substantive submissions in evidence and we gathered thousands of signatures in opposition to closing Haddington’s courts. There were no submissions in favour of closure. What kind of local consultation weighs in the balance all evidence against no evidence and comes down on the side of no evidence at all? It is a sham, a deception and a disgrace.
I was not scaremongering, and the cabinet secretary was dissembling. Last week, he consigned my local court to the dustbin of history. History matters. Haddington has had courts of some kind for centuries. We have had lay justice there since the time of James VI. Local justice survived the siege of Haddington, Cromwell, the reformation, the treaty of union, two world wars and Margaret Thatcher. It seems, however, that it will not survive Kenny MacAskill.
Haddington court is busy, contrary to the impression that the cabinet secretary tried to create last week. It dealt with more civil cases than any of the other courts that are slated to close. More than 3,000 criminal cases were prosecuted there last year, and many community sentences and drug treatment and testing orders were monitored. Adults with incapacity applications alone soared by 70 per cent. As East Lothian has the fastest-growing population in Scotland, court work there can only increase.
Victims and witnesses will face considerable inconvenience in travelling to Edinburgh. Those seeking civil redress or involved in family actions face not only their own travel costs but up to £400 more to cover additional travelling time for their agents for each court appearance.
As Mr MacAskill well knows, family actions can involve as many as 12 such hearings. He might save small change in his budget, but my constituents will pay dearly. Local lawyers say that legal aid work might become financially unviable for them, which would undermine access to advice and cost local jobs.
Haddington citizens advice bureau believes that its representation of clients will be compromised. Ironically, Mr MacAskill chose that very CAB to launch the first LawWorks legal advice service in Scotland. He praised the CAB’s in-court advisers, some of whom are here today because they fear that their jobs will be gone tomorrow if he persists in closing the court.
As for justices of the peace, all but a handful of East Lothian JPs have made it clear that they will not be willing to serve in Edinburgh, which will have a knock-on effect for non-bench work such as signing warrants for police officers. Mind you, those police officers might not need any warrants, because they will be spending all their time travelling to and from Edinburgh or sitting around Edinburgh sheriff court instead of doing police work in East Lothian. That is what our share of those extra police officers will spend their time doing.
All that is being done to save £81,000 per annum—a figure that is disputed by forensic accountancy evidence that was submitted to the consultation, and most of which will anyway be pushed on to other public sector budgets.
The greatest harm in the proposals is the compromising of local access to justice and the abrogation of the principle that justice must be seen to be done and not dispensed at a distance. However, there is another kind of damage, too. Haddington is a county town with a proud history and the community is working hard to maintain its vibrancy. Only last week, the town market was successfully re-established. A trust has just been elected to regenerate the town. The county archives have come home to a magnificent new library. An employability hub has opened to boost local opportunity, and this Saturday our local radio station will take to the airwaves.
Now, the dead hand of the cabinet secretary is reaching out into the heart of Haddington to snuff the life out of one of our key institutions. He is not standing up for Scotland but stamping down on one of Scotland’s oldest towns. In this context, he often falls back on the example of his home town of Linlithgow. What he omits to say is that justice was not removed from West Lothian as a county. The administrative centre of West Lothian moved to Livingston and the court went with it. There is no suggestion of the provision of a court somewhere else in my county of East Lothian. Jobs will go, local shops and businesses will suffer and civic pride will be hurt.
The cabinet secretary’s amendment is as dishonest as his consultation. First, it pretends that the decision has somehow been forced on him by someone else, which is a ridiculous assertion, given the saving of £80,000. He then tries to present it as a modernisation of the court service.
The amendment is false and false again. It is the cabinet secretary’s decision and it was taken solely to balance his books without regard for principle, the wider impact or indeed the evidence. It is the casual, unwitting vandalism of the bean-counting bureaucrat. It is unworthy of a minister who is entrusted with the stewardship of Scottish justice and unbecoming of a Scottish Cabinet that is charged with protecting the wellbeing of Scotland’s towns and communities, such as Haddington.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-06306, in the name of Lewis Macdonald, on access to justice. I invite members who wish to speak in the de...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
We have brought this debate to the chamber today to allow all members to have a say in the closures and cuts in function of Scotland’s courts—closures and cu...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
Can the member say what businesses were lost in the town of Linlithgow when the court in Linlithgow was closed and moved to Livingston?
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
As Mr MacAskill is a native of Linlithgow and I am not, I am sure that members will recognise that that was an entirely rhetorical question. The chairman of ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I suggest that Mr Macdonald and Mr MacAskill speak to the traders in Linlithgow to see whether the removal of the court from there was a good move.
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
That sounds like an excellent idea. I am sure that if Mr MacAskill does not manage to do that, Mr Findlay will.The economic impact is reason enough to have t...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
It might surprise the member to know that I met both the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents and the Scottish Police Federation today. Chief Super...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
That is very interesting. I am glad that, several days after making his decision, Mr MacAskill is finally getting around to meeting some people from the poli...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
The member kindly quoted me, but I went on to say that, if I could not get that proposal resisted, I would certainly campaign to ensure that there is a justi...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Absolutely—that is indeed what Christine Grahame said.Roddy Campbell, who is sitting beside Christine Grahame, has expressed equal concerns about the impact ...
Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
SNP
The member quotes me correctly, but he will obviously realise that there are difficulties with the Scottish Government’s budget. If he wants no changes whats...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
I am sure that Mr Thompson was listening when I pointed out that the cabinet secretary wilfully allowed £24 million of police funding to be liable for paymen...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Before I call the cabinet secretary, I make the point that some key participants were not here for the start of the debate. It is particularly important that...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to respond to Lewis Macdonald and the Labour motion. First, let us be clear about responsibilities. The Scottish Court Service is a...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
I hear what the cabinet secretary is saying when he says that the proposals are not his and that he made a decision on the proposals between Tuesday and Thur...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
As Lewis Macdonald knows, I answered a topical question on an urgent matter from John Lamont, who was looking for my position. I indicated that I would be ma...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Some of the reforms will mean an increase in business for sheriff courts, such as personal injury cases coming down from the Court of Session to the sheriff ...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
No, I do not believe so. Those matters have been factored in quite appropriately by the Scottish Court Service. If Ms Marra has concerns, I suggest that she ...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Con
Given the geographic conditions, there are significant differences between the court closures south of the border and those in Scotland in terms of the dista...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
The residents of Alnwick, Penrith and Whitehaven might not take the same view as Mr Fergusson regarding their geography and central location. Those are chall...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
I congratulate the Labour Party on bringing the debate to the chamber today, following the Scottish Government’s decision to cut the Scottish Court Service’s...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Does the member have an alternative suggestion for where the money should come from? Should it come from the health budget?
Margaret Mitchell
Con
There has been a cash-terms increase in the Scottish budget. It is for the Scottish Government to set priorities, but the closures that we are discussing rep...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I acknowledge the speeches by Lewis Macdonald and Margaret Mitchell. I take on board the concerns that they have raised and, as a member of the Justice Commi...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
How does Sandra White square the fact that members of her party make it clear that they oppose some of the cuts with the fact that, when it comes to decision...
Sandra White
SNP
When we look at the results of the elections, it seems that the people of Scotland trust the Scottish National Party, rather than the Labour Party. We need n...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
Sandra White is in her last minute.
Sandra White
SNP
In a recent interview, Lewis Macdonald’s colleague Jenny Marra also failed to provide clarity on the Labour Party’s proposals. She acknowledged that there we...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
More than a year ago, I said that a hit list of court closures was being prepared and that my local court in Haddington was on it. The Cabinet Secretary for ...