Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 24 April 2013
24 Apr 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Access to Justice
The residents of Alnwick, Penrith and Whitehaven might not take the same view as Mr Fergusson regarding their geography and central location. Those are challenges that need to be faced, but I am acting on the best advice given to me by our most senior judge and by those who are charged with looking after the interests of the Scottish Court Service. To deal with Labour’s challenges and demands that we make no cuts to legal aid and court buildings, the only thing that we could cut would be the 1,000 extra police officers that this Government has delivered—and that we will not do.
The Scottish Government set up the making justice work programme, which brings together all the key agencies and provides a strategic joined-up approach to reform. The programme focuses on creating an efficient and effective justice system that is fair and accessible and improves the experiences of users. Sheriff Principal Bowen’s “Independent Review of Sheriff and Jury Procedure” and Lord Gill’s “Report of the Scottish Civil Courts Review” set out the basis for a fundamental change in the way that business is conducted. Their reviews emphasise greater specialisation and a move away from a model in which all types of business are conducted at all court locations.
In thinking about the future business of the courts, we must also recognise that recorded crime is at its lowest level since 1975 and is down 25 per cent since 2006-07. Indeed, the number of people convicted in our courts continues to fall—down 19 per cent from its peak in 2006-07. A similar situation applies in our civil courts, where the number of cases last year was 13 per cent lower than the year before.
We can all see that the towns in which we live, the places where we work, the way in which we do business and the availability of transport have changed radically since Victorian times. The future that I see in Scotland is one in which justice is not simply based in the physical court building but delivered in a range of ways that are best suited to users of the system, whether they be victims, witnesses or those raising a civil action. Together, we need to think in new and innovative ways about the needs of justice in 21st century Scotland so that we take advantage of opportunities provided by new technology, whether that be by providing video links for conducting court proceedings or by allowing people to raise a civil action online or pay a fine by telephone rather than having to travel to do so. All those are features of work that is under way.
Concerns have been raised that victims and witnesses will find it harder to travel if court locations are closed. The Scottish Court Service measured its proposals against the judicial “Principles for provision of Access to Justice”, which were developed in discussion with the Lord President, the Lord Justice Clerk and the sheriff principals. Specifically, the Court Service looked to ensure that most people would be able to travel to their local court by public transport so as to arrive at the start of the case in which they are concerned and be able to return home by public transport on the same day. Those concerns were not taken lightly, but they must also be balanced against the number of people affected. The courts proposed for closure account for only 5 per cent of the total court business. In the majority of cases, the business will be transferred to another court within 20 miles. In addition, it is worth noting that some people in small towns or rural areas may have better travel links to the major centres than to other small towns.
I appreciate that there may be some concerns about the effect on local communities. I realise that a court can be regarded as an important element of the community. However, that needs to be balanced against the fact that many similar and larger communities function without a local court.
Some of our older court buildings require extensive modernisation and repair to bring them up to the standards that victims, witnesses and jurors expect. In some cases, for example, there is simply not enough room to segregate victims and witnesses. The Scottish Court Service’s proposals will allow it to focus future investment across a smaller group of buildings to ensure that it continues to deliver a quality service. Through the making justice work programme, we are taking action to ensure that victims and witnesses are called to court when necessary and to increase the number of trials that go ahead.
To conclude, we cannot deliver better access to justice by avoiding the need for change. It is right that we examine whether the structures that have served us since the 19th century best deliver the expectations of the public in the 21st century. In his foreword to the Scottish Court Service’s response to the consultation, Lord Gill states:
“I am confident that the proposals in this Report will contribute significantly to the success of the forthcoming civil justice reforms.”
I move amendment S4M-06306.2, to leave out from “regrets” to end and insert:
“acknowledges that the recommendations of the Scottish Court Service need to be viewed against the backdrop of unprecedented cuts to the Scottish budget by the UK Government; notes the Scottish Court Service’s belief that the proposals will support a future court structure fit for the 21st century, and recognises that the Justice Committee will scrutinise the recommendations, including the proposals on closures, as part of due parliamentary process”.
15:34
The Scottish Government set up the making justice work programme, which brings together all the key agencies and provides a strategic joined-up approach to reform. The programme focuses on creating an efficient and effective justice system that is fair and accessible and improves the experiences of users. Sheriff Principal Bowen’s “Independent Review of Sheriff and Jury Procedure” and Lord Gill’s “Report of the Scottish Civil Courts Review” set out the basis for a fundamental change in the way that business is conducted. Their reviews emphasise greater specialisation and a move away from a model in which all types of business are conducted at all court locations.
In thinking about the future business of the courts, we must also recognise that recorded crime is at its lowest level since 1975 and is down 25 per cent since 2006-07. Indeed, the number of people convicted in our courts continues to fall—down 19 per cent from its peak in 2006-07. A similar situation applies in our civil courts, where the number of cases last year was 13 per cent lower than the year before.
We can all see that the towns in which we live, the places where we work, the way in which we do business and the availability of transport have changed radically since Victorian times. The future that I see in Scotland is one in which justice is not simply based in the physical court building but delivered in a range of ways that are best suited to users of the system, whether they be victims, witnesses or those raising a civil action. Together, we need to think in new and innovative ways about the needs of justice in 21st century Scotland so that we take advantage of opportunities provided by new technology, whether that be by providing video links for conducting court proceedings or by allowing people to raise a civil action online or pay a fine by telephone rather than having to travel to do so. All those are features of work that is under way.
Concerns have been raised that victims and witnesses will find it harder to travel if court locations are closed. The Scottish Court Service measured its proposals against the judicial “Principles for provision of Access to Justice”, which were developed in discussion with the Lord President, the Lord Justice Clerk and the sheriff principals. Specifically, the Court Service looked to ensure that most people would be able to travel to their local court by public transport so as to arrive at the start of the case in which they are concerned and be able to return home by public transport on the same day. Those concerns were not taken lightly, but they must also be balanced against the number of people affected. The courts proposed for closure account for only 5 per cent of the total court business. In the majority of cases, the business will be transferred to another court within 20 miles. In addition, it is worth noting that some people in small towns or rural areas may have better travel links to the major centres than to other small towns.
I appreciate that there may be some concerns about the effect on local communities. I realise that a court can be regarded as an important element of the community. However, that needs to be balanced against the fact that many similar and larger communities function without a local court.
Some of our older court buildings require extensive modernisation and repair to bring them up to the standards that victims, witnesses and jurors expect. In some cases, for example, there is simply not enough room to segregate victims and witnesses. The Scottish Court Service’s proposals will allow it to focus future investment across a smaller group of buildings to ensure that it continues to deliver a quality service. Through the making justice work programme, we are taking action to ensure that victims and witnesses are called to court when necessary and to increase the number of trials that go ahead.
To conclude, we cannot deliver better access to justice by avoiding the need for change. It is right that we examine whether the structures that have served us since the 19th century best deliver the expectations of the public in the 21st century. In his foreword to the Scottish Court Service’s response to the consultation, Lord Gill states:
“I am confident that the proposals in this Report will contribute significantly to the success of the forthcoming civil justice reforms.”
I move amendment S4M-06306.2, to leave out from “regrets” to end and insert:
“acknowledges that the recommendations of the Scottish Court Service need to be viewed against the backdrop of unprecedented cuts to the Scottish budget by the UK Government; notes the Scottish Court Service’s belief that the proposals will support a future court structure fit for the 21st century, and recognises that the Justice Committee will scrutinise the recommendations, including the proposals on closures, as part of due parliamentary process”.
15:34
References in this contribution
Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-06306, in the name of Lewis Macdonald, on access to justice. I invite members who wish to speak in the de...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
We have brought this debate to the chamber today to allow all members to have a say in the closures and cuts in function of Scotland’s courts—closures and cu...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
Can the member say what businesses were lost in the town of Linlithgow when the court in Linlithgow was closed and moved to Livingston?
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
As Mr MacAskill is a native of Linlithgow and I am not, I am sure that members will recognise that that was an entirely rhetorical question. The chairman of ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I suggest that Mr Macdonald and Mr MacAskill speak to the traders in Linlithgow to see whether the removal of the court from there was a good move.
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
That sounds like an excellent idea. I am sure that if Mr MacAskill does not manage to do that, Mr Findlay will.The economic impact is reason enough to have t...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
It might surprise the member to know that I met both the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents and the Scottish Police Federation today. Chief Super...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
That is very interesting. I am glad that, several days after making his decision, Mr MacAskill is finally getting around to meeting some people from the poli...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
The member kindly quoted me, but I went on to say that, if I could not get that proposal resisted, I would certainly campaign to ensure that there is a justi...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Absolutely—that is indeed what Christine Grahame said.Roddy Campbell, who is sitting beside Christine Grahame, has expressed equal concerns about the impact ...
Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
SNP
The member quotes me correctly, but he will obviously realise that there are difficulties with the Scottish Government’s budget. If he wants no changes whats...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
I am sure that Mr Thompson was listening when I pointed out that the cabinet secretary wilfully allowed £24 million of police funding to be liable for paymen...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Before I call the cabinet secretary, I make the point that some key participants were not here for the start of the debate. It is particularly important that...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to respond to Lewis Macdonald and the Labour motion. First, let us be clear about responsibilities. The Scottish Court Service is a...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
I hear what the cabinet secretary is saying when he says that the proposals are not his and that he made a decision on the proposals between Tuesday and Thur...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
As Lewis Macdonald knows, I answered a topical question on an urgent matter from John Lamont, who was looking for my position. I indicated that I would be ma...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Some of the reforms will mean an increase in business for sheriff courts, such as personal injury cases coming down from the Court of Session to the sheriff ...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
No, I do not believe so. Those matters have been factored in quite appropriately by the Scottish Court Service. If Ms Marra has concerns, I suggest that she ...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Con
Given the geographic conditions, there are significant differences between the court closures south of the border and those in Scotland in terms of the dista...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
The residents of Alnwick, Penrith and Whitehaven might not take the same view as Mr Fergusson regarding their geography and central location. Those are chall...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
I congratulate the Labour Party on bringing the debate to the chamber today, following the Scottish Government’s decision to cut the Scottish Court Service’s...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Does the member have an alternative suggestion for where the money should come from? Should it come from the health budget?
Margaret Mitchell
Con
There has been a cash-terms increase in the Scottish budget. It is for the Scottish Government to set priorities, but the closures that we are discussing rep...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I acknowledge the speeches by Lewis Macdonald and Margaret Mitchell. I take on board the concerns that they have raised and, as a member of the Justice Commi...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
How does Sandra White square the fact that members of her party make it clear that they oppose some of the cuts with the fact that, when it comes to decision...
Sandra White
SNP
When we look at the results of the elections, it seems that the people of Scotland trust the Scottish National Party, rather than the Labour Party. We need n...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
Sandra White is in her last minute.
Sandra White
SNP
In a recent interview, Lewis Macdonald’s colleague Jenny Marra also failed to provide clarity on the Labour Party’s proposals. She acknowledged that there we...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
More than a year ago, I said that a hit list of court closures was being prepared and that my local court in Haddington was on it. The Cabinet Secretary for ...