Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 17 April 2013
17 Apr 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Public Procurement Reform
I am not sure that that was a positive contribution, which I am hoping to make.
More recently, we received the report “Improving community planning in Scotland”, which states:
“ten years after community planning was given a statutory basis, CPPs are not able to show that they have had a significant impact in delivering improved outcomes”.
The whole ethos of community planning partnerships, which we all supported, was to ensure that representatives from across communities would sit around the table with a better understanding of the community’s needs and concerns. The aim was to ensure that any decisions that were made, including procurement decisions, would be beneficial to the local community, which Gordon MacDonald highlighted very well in his speech.
Perhaps the main procurement issue that has arisen in recent times was highlighted in the report “Managing ICT contracts”, in which the Auditor General expressed serious concern about procurement of information and communication technology in the public sector, but focused only on three organisations, including Registers of Scotland, which at the time of the report had spent £112 million on such projects against an original cost estimate of £66 million. Two projects were cancelled with a £6.7 million write-off and, as the report points out,
“Individual projects lacked detailed cost, benefits and milestones, and contributed to a lack of ownership for cost and time overruns.”
Obviously there is plenty of scope to make the sort of improvements in procurement that are outlined in the report.
Perhaps the cabinet secretary will also consider the report’s comment that
“The Scottish Government provided limited support”
to the organisations.
As others do, I hope that the public procurement bill will make it easier for new businesses, SMEs, the third sector and social enterprises to access public contract opportunities and subcontracts. The cabinet secretary mentioned the construction industry, so I must point out Michael Levack’s recent comment that
“There is currently too little direct linkage between the award of contracts and the creation of more employment and training opportunities with construction companies with a strong local presence and pedigree.”
That said, I acknowledge the points that the cabinet secretary made in that regard.
I also found the report that was produced by Campbell Christie a few years ago to be very interesting in relation to procurement and commissioning. It says:
“There is a widespread belief that the Scottish Government and local authorities are less diligent about scrutinising and costing inhouse services than those contracted out to external providers.”
Whether or not that is the case, I am sure that more transparency in the process, which I appreciate is an issue that will be covered in the bill, will be widely welcomed.
The Christie commission report also said:
“There is still much to be done to ensure that when competition takes place between the public and private sector it is on an equal footing”.
I hope that we examine the quality, effectiveness and reliability of services, as well as their value for money, and that we give the public, private and third sectors the same opportunities.
I also totally agree with the Christie commission’s highlighting of the fact that social care and support services are still commissioned and funded on the basis of units of cost and volume, with little attention being paid to the value of the services with regard to the outcomes that are identified by individual service users and families, or by community planning partnerships in single outcome agreements.
I realise that I am running out of time, Presiding Officer, so I will finish on that point.
More recently, we received the report “Improving community planning in Scotland”, which states:
“ten years after community planning was given a statutory basis, CPPs are not able to show that they have had a significant impact in delivering improved outcomes”.
The whole ethos of community planning partnerships, which we all supported, was to ensure that representatives from across communities would sit around the table with a better understanding of the community’s needs and concerns. The aim was to ensure that any decisions that were made, including procurement decisions, would be beneficial to the local community, which Gordon MacDonald highlighted very well in his speech.
Perhaps the main procurement issue that has arisen in recent times was highlighted in the report “Managing ICT contracts”, in which the Auditor General expressed serious concern about procurement of information and communication technology in the public sector, but focused only on three organisations, including Registers of Scotland, which at the time of the report had spent £112 million on such projects against an original cost estimate of £66 million. Two projects were cancelled with a £6.7 million write-off and, as the report points out,
“Individual projects lacked detailed cost, benefits and milestones, and contributed to a lack of ownership for cost and time overruns.”
Obviously there is plenty of scope to make the sort of improvements in procurement that are outlined in the report.
Perhaps the cabinet secretary will also consider the report’s comment that
“The Scottish Government provided limited support”
to the organisations.
As others do, I hope that the public procurement bill will make it easier for new businesses, SMEs, the third sector and social enterprises to access public contract opportunities and subcontracts. The cabinet secretary mentioned the construction industry, so I must point out Michael Levack’s recent comment that
“There is currently too little direct linkage between the award of contracts and the creation of more employment and training opportunities with construction companies with a strong local presence and pedigree.”
That said, I acknowledge the points that the cabinet secretary made in that regard.
I also found the report that was produced by Campbell Christie a few years ago to be very interesting in relation to procurement and commissioning. It says:
“There is a widespread belief that the Scottish Government and local authorities are less diligent about scrutinising and costing inhouse services than those contracted out to external providers.”
Whether or not that is the case, I am sure that more transparency in the process, which I appreciate is an issue that will be covered in the bill, will be widely welcomed.
The Christie commission report also said:
“There is still much to be done to ensure that when competition takes place between the public and private sector it is on an equal footing”.
I hope that we examine the quality, effectiveness and reliability of services, as well as their value for money, and that we give the public, private and third sectors the same opportunities.
I also totally agree with the Christie commission’s highlighting of the fact that social care and support services are still commissioned and funded on the basis of units of cost and volume, with little attention being paid to the value of the services with regard to the outcomes that are identified by individual service users and families, or by community planning partnerships in single outcome agreements.
I realise that I am running out of time, Presiding Officer, so I will finish on that point.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-06153, in the name of Maureen Watt, on behalf of the Infrastructure and Capital Investment Committee, on ...
Gordon MacDonald (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
SNP
It is a pleasure to open this debate on public procurement on behalf of the Infrastructure and Capital Investment Committee. As members know, the Scottish Go...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
We sometimes hear criticism of the EU, for a variety of reasons. Will the member confirm what I think that he just said, which is that the EU gives Scottish ...
Gordon MacDonald
SNP
I agree on that point. The EU-wide framework opens up opportunities for Scottish companies, because the scale of procurement by the public sector across the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We are extraordinarily tight for time today. I call on Nicola Sturgeon, who has up to 10 minutes.14:50
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities (Nicola Sturgeon)
SNP
As Gordon MacDonald has just said, Scottish public bodies spend more than £9 billion of taxpayers’ money every year, so it stands to reason that the decision...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
On a question of timing, does the minister intend to wait until the EU process of reform is further down the line before introducing a bill here, or does she...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
We hope to introduce the procurement reform bill before the summer recess. We require to give ourselves comfort that what we propose in that bill will be wit...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
I suspect that procurement as a topic for debate may not have set many members’ pulses racing, but I am encouraged to hear that the debate is tightly subscri...
John Mason
SNP
Will Elaine Murray give way on that point?
Elaine Murray
Lab
Sorry, I have only 10 seconds.We should not subsidise low pay in other sectors. I know that my colleague Kezia Dugdale is considering taking forward John Par...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
You must close, please.
Elaine Murray
Lab
Workers’ rights must be respected. The cabinet secretary also made some good points about the use of community benefit clauses.I look forward to the introduc...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
The Conservatives, too, welcome today’s debate, which provides an opportunity to bring forward some ideas.The motion in the name of Maureen Watt states that ...
John Mason
SNP
Does Mary Scanlon accept that one reason why we have limited resources is that we have tied up funds in private finance initiative projects, which have ended...
Mary Scanlon
Con
I am not sure that that was a positive contribution, which I am hoping to make.More recently, we received the report “Improving community planning in Scotlan...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
That is much appreciated. We move to the open debate.15:13
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I am delighted to speak in the debate, and my speech is built on the foundations that were laid by the Christie commission report to which Mary Scanlon has j...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
I agree that there should be encouragement, but currently, the European Union legislation and a test case—Dirk Rüffert v Land Niedersachsen—show that we cann...
Chic Brodie
SNP
Of course, I agree with the latter point. I will come to the former in a minute.On the living wage and public sector contracts, it is anathema to me that we ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
The member’s keeping to time is much appreciated.15:19
Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to debate the proposed procurement reform bill and the wider procurement agenda, which is—I am glad to say—at last being given the ...
Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP)
SNP
I thank the Infrastructure and Capital Investment Committee for holding this debate. It is an excellent idea to ask—as the motion states—for“members’ views o...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
Thank you. Before I call John Mason, I just want to say that the building work is not supposed to be taking place while Parliament is sitting, so we are havi...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Thank you for that reassurance, Presiding Officer.I welcome the fact that procurement is on the agenda. Although we all accept that there is definitely room ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We are very tight for time.15:37
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD)
LD
I, too, declare an interest as an honorary fellow of RIAS. I very much agree with Linda Fabiani’s point that the Deputy First Minister’s bill should not be s...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
I thank the Infrastructure and Capital Investment Committee for giving us this opportunity to debate this important issue today. For many, this issue is not ...
Anne McTaggart (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
In these tough economic circumstances, it is right that the Parliament takes time to scrutinise how Scotland uses its buying power to promote social and econ...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
In the interests of fairness, will the member acknowledge that it is not that we do not support legislation for a living wage but that EU legislation does no...