Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 05 December 2012
05 Dec 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Health Service
In the first eight years of this Parliament, Labour allocated huge increases to health, which enabled the system to recover from the previous round of Tory cuts and improved the patient experience, the quality and range of services and, crucially, the terms and conditions of NHS staff. Alex Neil has a cheek to criticise Labour, given that his predecessor refused to accept NHS Lothian’s plea for Edinburgh’s new sick kids hospital to be built through conventional spending. It will be years late and it will be funded under the non-profit-distributing model.
Last month, the cabinet secretary criticised NHS Lothian as being in the second division and Audit Scotland revealed that our NHS is on an amber warning. Today, the SNP’s amendment deletes that warning from the Labour motion. In fact, it deletes the problems that Jackie Baillie has correctly identified. The SNP cannot Tipp-Ex out those problems. Our challenge is to air them in the chamber and come up with solutions. Staff reductions have put massive pressure on the remaining staff and undermined the quality of care that patients receive. The fact that interns are now being used to supplement hard-pressed nurses is simply not acceptable.
The waiting times problem in Lothian has blown open the reality in our NHS today. The systematic fiddling of the figures that we have discussed before, the subversion of patients’ rights and the fact that the waiting lists were a complete fiction still need to be addressed. How on earth can the SNP Government assert that
“all NHS boards have met their financial targets on revenue and capital”?
What does that mean? It is completely fictitious. In NHS Lothian alone, the estimate earlier this year was that it would cost about £20 million just to address the backlog and deal with the hundreds of people who had not had their waiting times honoured. Last week, the board papers stated that the estimate of the amount needed is now more than £26 million. Those figures demonstrate that the capacity to meet the Government’s targets on waiting times is simply not there. To use the cabinet secretary’s phrase, there is a systemic problem.
I would be interested to hear the cabinet secretary’s comments about the level at which the NHS runs bed capacity in the light of this week’s report from the Dr Foster unit at Imperial College. It is stark:
“When bed occupancy tips the 85% mark the system goes into overdrive - and things start to give. For patients that means quality of care may suffer.”
How does that equate to what is happening in our hospitals in Scotland? It feels very much like what is happening in Lothian, where the problems have piled up one after another. Only last month, the board was forced to reopen the Royal Victoria hospital, which was mothballed earlier this year, to create the extra capacity to get us all through the winter. There simply are not the resources available to get older people out of our hospitals and into care that is appropriate for them when they need it. That is a current problem in the NHS.
Last month, the cabinet secretary criticised NHS Lothian as being in the second division and Audit Scotland revealed that our NHS is on an amber warning. Today, the SNP’s amendment deletes that warning from the Labour motion. In fact, it deletes the problems that Jackie Baillie has correctly identified. The SNP cannot Tipp-Ex out those problems. Our challenge is to air them in the chamber and come up with solutions. Staff reductions have put massive pressure on the remaining staff and undermined the quality of care that patients receive. The fact that interns are now being used to supplement hard-pressed nurses is simply not acceptable.
The waiting times problem in Lothian has blown open the reality in our NHS today. The systematic fiddling of the figures that we have discussed before, the subversion of patients’ rights and the fact that the waiting lists were a complete fiction still need to be addressed. How on earth can the SNP Government assert that
“all NHS boards have met their financial targets on revenue and capital”?
What does that mean? It is completely fictitious. In NHS Lothian alone, the estimate earlier this year was that it would cost about £20 million just to address the backlog and deal with the hundreds of people who had not had their waiting times honoured. Last week, the board papers stated that the estimate of the amount needed is now more than £26 million. Those figures demonstrate that the capacity to meet the Government’s targets on waiting times is simply not there. To use the cabinet secretary’s phrase, there is a systemic problem.
I would be interested to hear the cabinet secretary’s comments about the level at which the NHS runs bed capacity in the light of this week’s report from the Dr Foster unit at Imperial College. It is stark:
“When bed occupancy tips the 85% mark the system goes into overdrive - and things start to give. For patients that means quality of care may suffer.”
How does that equate to what is happening in our hospitals in Scotland? It feels very much like what is happening in Lothian, where the problems have piled up one after another. Only last month, the board was forced to reopen the Royal Victoria hospital, which was mothballed earlier this year, to create the extra capacity to get us all through the winter. There simply are not the resources available to get older people out of our hospitals and into care that is appropriate for them when they need it. That is a current problem in the NHS.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-05088, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on Scotland’s health service.15:49
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to debate Scotland’s health service. We are all—rightly—proud of the national health service and we are all grateful to the dedicat...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I call Alex Neil, who has seven minutes.15:59
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Alex Neil)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity yet again to put on record my gratitude for the dedication and commitment of NHS staff throughout Scotland and, indeed, my gratitud...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Alex Neil
SNP
I do not have much time, so I do not have time for interruptions, unfortunately.Let me make it absolutely clear that individual cases that need to be investi...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Alex Neil
SNP
I do not have time, unfortunately.I say to Jackie Baillie and other Labour members that, if we did not have to pay out £184 million for private finance initi...
Neil Findlay
Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I wonder whether you can help. The minister says that he does not have time to take an intervention. He has seven min...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Thank you, but that is not a point of order. It is for members to decide whether to take interventions.
Alex Neil
SNP
I have so many errors to correct and so much to say that the truth is that seven minutes is not nearly enough time.Let us deal with Audit Scotland. In the Au...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Alex Neil
SNP
I have only just over a minute left.Unlike Labour, we do not have hidden waiting lists. We will not hide behind anyone. If there are problems to be solved, w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I now call on Jackson Carlaw—five minutes, please.16:07
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Well, ever was it thus. This is depressingly like a debate that I am sure we had within the recent memory of us all. The Labour Party throws everything at th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
We move to the open debate, with speeches of four minutes. Time is tight this afternoon.16:12
Aileen McLeod (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I offer my sincere thanks to all the NHS staff who were responsible for delivering what the NHS’s chief executive described in his recently published annual ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
You have one minute left.
Aileen McLeod
SNP
It has become clear in recent weeks that the SNP Government stands alone in giving those undertakings. We know that no area of universal entitlement to publi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
You must conclude.
Aileen McLeod
SNP
In conclusion, I support the amendment in Alex Neil’s name.16:16
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
In the first eight years of this Parliament, Labour allocated huge increases to health, which enabled the system to recover from the previous round of Tory c...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
The member is in her last minute.
Sarah Boyack
Lab
The problem is not just bed capacity, but insufficient staff in key clinical areas. I could have spent my four minutes just reading out recent press headline...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
We talk a lot about choices during debates in this chamber. Recently, we have heard talk from Labour members—indeed, from the Labour leader—about the need to...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Mark McDonald
SNP
I will happily hear Sarah Boyack’s point in the winding-up speeches—I have only four minutes.We need to know exactly what the Labour Party’s priorities are. ...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Mark McDonald
SNP
I ask Ms Baillie to leave it to the winding-up speeches; as I said, I have only four minutes.
Jackie Baillie
Lab
We need an apology from you.