Committee
Justice Committee 13 November 2012
13 Nov 2012 · S4 · Justice Committee
Item of business
Scottish Civil Justice Council and Criminal Legal Assistance Bill: Stage 2
Amendment 12 seeks to clarify an issue that I raised at stage 1. Part 1 of the bill establishes the Scottish civil justice council, which will be led by the Lord President with a membership comprising legal and consumer representatives. Although the council will have a predominantly advisory role, it will clearly be a significant player in the law reform world, and its opinion will obviously carry weight.Given that part 1 allows the council to offer advice and make recommendations to Scottish ministers on the development of the civil justice system, I have lodged a probing amendment to allow a discussion on whether the bill might go further than that and introduce a presumption that the council must be consulted in certain circumstances. For example, if a policy were to be introduced that either directly or indirectly affected the civil justice system, would Scottish ministers be compelled by law to consult the council? I can cite other examples of statutory consultees that have been created by legislation, mainly within planning law under which it is necessary to consult local authorities.Other amendments that will be debated this morning seek to better define the council’s policy functions and remit. Amendment 12 has a similar objective in that it clarifies that, notwithstanding the council’s power to offer advice, nothing in the bill places a requirement on ministers to consult the council. I am interested to hear the cabinet secretary’s view on the effect of the bill’s current drafting in this area.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Item 2 is stage 2 proceedings on the Scottish Civil Justice Council and Criminal Legal Assistance Bill. I welcome the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and his o...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 25, in the name of Jenny Marra, is grouped with amendments 26 and 28 to 30.
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Amendment 25 would give the Scottish civil justice council a duty to advise the Scottish Government on civil justice matters and a duty to consider how to ma...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I will discuss amendment 25 and its consequential amendments 26 and 29 first. I appreciate that Jenny Marra is seeking to ensure that the bill is clear about...
Jenny Marra
Lab
I have said what I want to say on the amendments, and I press amendment 25.
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 25 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division.ForMarra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab)Pearson, Graeme (South Scotland) (Lab)Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con)AgainstC...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 5, Abstentions 0.Amendment 25 disagreed to.
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 26, in the name of Jenny Marra, has been debated with amendment 25.
Jenny Marra
Lab
As amendment 25 has been defeated, I will not move amendment 26.Amendment 26 not moved.
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 27, in the name of Jenny Marra, is grouped with amendments 1 to 4 and 11.
Jenny Marra
Lab
Amendment 27 would give the council an obligation to consult on changes to the rules of court. Given the complexity of many rules of court, organisations hav...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Jenny Marra’s amendment 27 would require the council to consult“such persons as it considers appropriate before preparing draft rules”.However, the bill give...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP)
SNP
I have difficulty with the statutory duty that Jenny Marra proposes, as it seems unnecessarily to tie the hands. There may be occasions on which consultation...
Jenny Marra
Lab
I feel that the statutory duty to consult would strengthen the new council and its ties with the public at large. Organisations’ right to be consulted would ...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 27 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division.ForMarra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab)Pearson, Graeme (South Scotland) (Lab)Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con)AgainstC...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 5, Abstentions 0.Amendment 27 disagreed to.Amendment 1 moved—Kenny MacAskill—and agreed to.Section 2, as amende...
The Convener
SNP
Am I going slowly enough?
Roderick Campbell
SNP
Just about.
Jenny Marra
Lab
Nearly.
The Convener
SNP
That is faint praise.After section 3
The Convener
SNP
The next group is on consultation of the council. Amendment 12, in the name of Margaret Mitchell, is the only amendment in the group.
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Amendment 12 seeks to clarify an issue that I raised at stage 1. Part 1 of the bill establishes the Scottish civil justice council, which will be led by the ...
The Convener
SNP
It might be a probing amendment, Mrs Mitchell, but you are still required to move it.
Margaret Mitchell
Con
I move amendment 12.
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
I appreciate what Margaret Mitchell is seeking with amendment 12, and entirely agree that the bill should not oblige ministers to consult the council. That i...
The Convener
SNP
The next group is on composition of the council. Amendment 31, in the name of Jenny Marra, is grouped with amendments 32 to 34 and 36 to 39.
Jenny Marra
Lab
Amendment 31 seeks to afford the council flexibility in the number of judicial members that can be appointed by changing the wording of the current proposal ...
The Convener
SNP
Yes. This is your opportunity to speak to all the amendments.