Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 24 May 2012
24 May 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill
I am very pleased that we are introducing minimum pricing of alcohol. The Scottish Greens have supported the bill in this session and we supported the similar bill in the previous session, before my time here. The bill alone will not achieve the policy aim of changing Scotland’s unhealthy drinking culture, but it is an important contribution, as the cabinet secretary pointed out.
BMA Scotland, Alcohol Focus Scotland and Scottish Health Action on Alcohol Problems stated in their joint briefing for the stage 1 debate:
“Without action on price, any other measures to reduce consumption and harm will be swimming against a very powerful tide. If we want to change ‘culture’ then price is a good place to start.”
The bill is a good place to start, but the narrowness with which it was drafted has not allowed the fullest debate on other possible ways and complementary mechanisms to address our deep-seated issues with alcohol.
It was disappointing that the Government and Labour in the previous session were unable to work constructively together to produce a better bill. Proposals for legislation to deal with caffeinated alcohol have merit and are worthy of proper consideration. I am disappointed that in this session we did not manage to have the SNP and Labour sit down and work together on the windfall to large retailers and other issues. Such legislative opportunities are rare and it is important that we use our windows of opportunity in that regard to the best of our ability.
Throughout the bill process, the Greens have called for measures to tackle the structure of the drinks industry. To change our high-volume drinking culture we need to challenge the high-volume drinks industry. We also need to support community pubs and small-scale producers whose business models rely on quality produce, and we need to tackle the power of big brewers and producers, for whom shifting large volumes is the aim of the game.
This is a difficult issue, but I think that we all recognise that it is not only individuals who are responsible for what they drink, because their choices are made within a wider cultural setting that is heavily influenced by the nature of the drinks industry, its marketing message and the way in which it runs and supplies pubs and clubs.
So, where next? I welcome Dr Richard Simpson’s and Graeme Pearson’s members’ bill consultation, which puts some good proposals up for debate, including limiting the caffeinated alcoholic drinks that I mentioned earlier, improving community involvement in licensing decisions and banning alcoholic drinks advertising in public places. The object of the ban would be to help to “de-normalise”—to use the consultation’s language—alcohol for children.
It is essential that we achieve the culture change that we all seek. I agree with Children 1st that passing the bill will be a huge step forward in beginning that process.
16:34
BMA Scotland, Alcohol Focus Scotland and Scottish Health Action on Alcohol Problems stated in their joint briefing for the stage 1 debate:
“Without action on price, any other measures to reduce consumption and harm will be swimming against a very powerful tide. If we want to change ‘culture’ then price is a good place to start.”
The bill is a good place to start, but the narrowness with which it was drafted has not allowed the fullest debate on other possible ways and complementary mechanisms to address our deep-seated issues with alcohol.
It was disappointing that the Government and Labour in the previous session were unable to work constructively together to produce a better bill. Proposals for legislation to deal with caffeinated alcohol have merit and are worthy of proper consideration. I am disappointed that in this session we did not manage to have the SNP and Labour sit down and work together on the windfall to large retailers and other issues. Such legislative opportunities are rare and it is important that we use our windows of opportunity in that regard to the best of our ability.
Throughout the bill process, the Greens have called for measures to tackle the structure of the drinks industry. To change our high-volume drinking culture we need to challenge the high-volume drinks industry. We also need to support community pubs and small-scale producers whose business models rely on quality produce, and we need to tackle the power of big brewers and producers, for whom shifting large volumes is the aim of the game.
This is a difficult issue, but I think that we all recognise that it is not only individuals who are responsible for what they drink, because their choices are made within a wider cultural setting that is heavily influenced by the nature of the drinks industry, its marketing message and the way in which it runs and supplies pubs and clubs.
So, where next? I welcome Dr Richard Simpson’s and Graeme Pearson’s members’ bill consultation, which puts some good proposals up for debate, including limiting the caffeinated alcoholic drinks that I mentioned earlier, improving community involvement in licensing decisions and banning alcoholic drinks advertising in public places. The object of the ban would be to help to “de-normalise”—to use the consultation’s language—alcohol for children.
It is essential that we achieve the culture change that we all seek. I agree with Children 1st that passing the bill will be a huge step forward in beginning that process.
16:34
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02967, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill. I call on Nicola...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Cities Strategy (Nicola Sturgeon)
SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I wish to advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Alcohol (M...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
If Jackie Baillie wants to comment on Diane Abbott’s support for the Scottish Government, I will be delighted to take an intervention.
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary for her generosity. First it was the First Minister, and now the Deputy First Minister is following Diane Abbott. I am delighte...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
What Jackie Baillie does not tell members is that, before saying that, Yvette Cooper said that she supported minimum pricing. That is the position of Yvette ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
I, too, welcome the opportunity to participate in the stage 3 debate on minimum pricing, and I too record my thanks to all involved.Throughout the passage of...
Margo MacDonald (Lothian) (Ind)
Ind
Could the member briefly examine whether that figure of 25 per cent is a mean figure across the country? I doubt that it is. I am sure that there are areas o...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I think that the figure varies by income, which I think is the point that the member is making. I am sure that people will look forward to drinking more with...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I am afraid that the member is running out of time.
Jackie Baillie
Lab
—of large supermarkets at the expense of hard-working public services.I move amendment S4M-02967.1, to insert at end:“but, in so doing, strongly believes tha...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Today is a significant day. Alcohol minimum unit pricing has been the centre of debate in the current session and the previous session of Parliament, almost ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We move to the open debate. Speeches should be of four minutes.16:06
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
The arguments against minimum pricing on the basis of potential supermarket profits or increased revenues have been well and truly exposed this afternoon as ...
Margo MacDonald
Ind
I wonder if the member would like to answer a question for me. What does he see as the result of this measure? Does he see everyone drinking a little less or...
Bob Doris
SNP
It is not how I see it; it is what the evidence points to, which is that the most harmful drinkers will be most affected by these measures. That is what the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Yes.
Bob Doris
SNP
Oh dear. I will be brief.The health benefits of minimum pricing differ according to which group we are talking about. It is said that minimum pricing will ha...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I am grateful to be able to speak in the debate, given that I am not a member of the Health and Sport Committee.I want to look at the bill in a slightly diff...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I thank Jackie Baillie for covering most of the ground on the thinking behind Labour’s approach to the bill. Equally, I thank Sandra White and Bob Doris, who...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The member has no time. He has precisely 10 seconds left.
Graeme Pearson
Lab
I support the amendment in Jackie Baillie’s name.16:19
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
SNP
I have to say that I do not agree with the cabinet secretary because I do not think that Labour’s pitiful opposition to the bill is a fig leaf so much as it ...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
I thank Nicola Sturgeon for pioneering the bill. It is pioneering legislation and she is out there in front, proposing a measure that a lot of people will no...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
As a member of the Health and Sport Committee, I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. Alcohol minimum pricing is the latest step to change the dri...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green)
Green
I am very pleased that we are introducing minimum pricing of alcohol. The Scottish Greens have supported the bill in this session and we supported the simila...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the debate that we have had, I welcome the bill and I welcome the fact that, at 5 o’clock tonight, it will become the law of Scotland. I also welco...
Jackson Carlaw
Con
This has been a short but slightly depressing debate in the sense that, even at this late stage, the argument about the bill has continued even though, after...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
In 2001, as the Deputy Minister for Justice, I recognised that Scotland had a growing problem with alcohol and that we were well into the third wave in our h...