Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 14 June 2012
14 Jun 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
PIP Silicone Breast Implants
As all members have acknowledged, this has been a useful debate, but some questions remain unanswered.
Why should there be an inquiry? Why should we not just rely on the Earl Howe report on the MHRA, and on the two reports by Sir Bruce Keogh? Why are they not sufficient? As the minister said, those reports are helpful, but they are not sufficient, although they will and should inform our approach.
In her thoughtful contribution, Nanette Milne reminded us of the fraud by the manufacturer, but the issue is not one of blame. We are talking about ensuring patient safety. That is what regulation is about, and the regulatory system failed those patients, some of whom are in the gallery today.
The Earl Howe report says that the MHRA did all that it could, but it fails to examine whether the system of reporting was adequate, as reports were made directly to the company and might have been used as a substitute for an effective UK reporting system. Systems for reporting on adverse effects generally are an area of concern and, as Malcolm Chisholm said, there was a refusal to test at least some of the extracted implants.
The House of Commons committee has been justifiably critical of the Earl Howe report, although it is a pity that there has not been a greater analysis of it. The Government simply appears to have accepted it as being wholly valid.
I was somewhat disappointed in Maureen Watt’s contribution. Many of the women that we are talking about have had reconstructive surgery, but others who sought private implants did so for quite genuine and reasonable psychological reasons. Although I understand what she is talking about when she talks about the emphasis on body image, it is not particularly relevant.
The stories of the affected women are striking for a number of reasons. It is those women who are asking the Parliament to act to ensure that what happened does not happen again in either this or other contexts, and I will come to that point in a minute. It is those women who are asking for an inquiry in Scotland—because there is a Scottish dimension to the issue. It is they who want the situation not to arise here again.
A number of members have talked about the difficulties that the women encountered as the scandal unfolded. The French Government took strong and decisive action, which contrasted with the rather slower and more confused action that was taken at the UK level. Margaret Burgess’s description of the women’s distress resonated, and that was quite helpful.
When we are told that some women had to pay for removal of the device even once it was established that the producing company had switched from medical grade silicone to industrial grade silicone without telling us and had not passed on information about the level of ruptures, we have to question what private companies were doing.
Those affected tell us that there has been some suggestion of a postcode lottery, so I welcome the minister’s agreement to listen to and take up the issue for any woman who has not had a satisfactory response from the NHS. I hope that the campaign group will spread that information around so that some of the cases that we have already heard about can be raised.
When we hear about the woman who was not only charged for the removal procedure but was charged £100 for disposal of the removed device, we must question the ethics of the private company involved. Some women were also charged when the provider did not think that the removal of the device was necessary, but if a woman faced with the situation wishes to have the device removed because her anxiety levels have increased, she should be entitled to have it removed, especially given the level of fraud that has allegedly occurred. We have particular problems in Scotland, because class actions cannot be taken here, unlike in England, but that is a separate issue that I do not fully understand.
The Howe inquiry has gone so far and the Keogh inquiry will go further, so why do we want to establish our own public inquiry? It is not that we do not welcome both of those inquiries, but if we are serious about a potential move to independence, we will need to consider having not just a Scottish Medicines Consortium to authorise medicines, but a similar body—the 81st regional body—to authorise devices. With 27,000 devices approved, that would be no mean undertaking.
The EU may revise the rules on devices, but it is clear from the scandal and from the scandal that is going to unfold regarding metal-on-metal hip replacements that the regulation of medical devices—particularly those involving implantation—is inadequate. Moreover, we cannot look to the United States for better regulation, as they, too, have problems with what constitutes a threshold for notification by companies of changes in devices. They, too, have their own unfolding scandals.
Scotland and this Government have a duty of care to Scottish residents, as Jackie Baillie and Mary Fee made clear, which falls within the scope of an inquiry. What efforts did the Scottish Government make when the first medical alert came out in March 2010? We are not accusing the Government of inaction once the scandal began to evolve, but there was a medical alert in 2010. Did we, at that point, inform all the providers in Scotland whose regulation we have responsibility for that they must pay heed to that medical alert? Did we, at that point, talk to women who had had implants that were subject to the alert? No, we did not. There was delay, and that must be considered by the inquiry because the issue may also arise in relation to the metal-on-metal scandal that we will shortly face. We need much greater clarity and effort to ensure patients’ safety.
Some issues are reserved, and the MHRA deals with those. The Health Professions Council deals with the regulation of practitioners, but we have responsibility for determining the minimum standards of care, which can include things such as insurance cover and the medical qualifications that we believe are required. For example, should only dentists be able to perform tooth whitening? That is another issue that is coming up. There have been legal cases on the subject, but the fact remains that unqualified people are still performing tooth whitening. Eye laser surgery is not cosmetic, but the level of qualification required of those who undertake it in Scotland is not fully regulated beyond HPC level. Regulations in respect of companies that do marketing in Scotland or undertake surgery in Scotland should be introduced quickly. We passed legislation in 2010, we held a consultation in 2010 and the consultation was completed in July 2011, but we still have not had a report. We have not acted with speed on the issue of more effective regulation of high-street surgery and the private sector; it requires greater speed.
Those are all issues on which we believe a public inquiry is needed to ensure that Scottish patients are adequately protected going forward. I therefore support Jackie Baillie’s motion calling for a public inquiry.
Why should there be an inquiry? Why should we not just rely on the Earl Howe report on the MHRA, and on the two reports by Sir Bruce Keogh? Why are they not sufficient? As the minister said, those reports are helpful, but they are not sufficient, although they will and should inform our approach.
In her thoughtful contribution, Nanette Milne reminded us of the fraud by the manufacturer, but the issue is not one of blame. We are talking about ensuring patient safety. That is what regulation is about, and the regulatory system failed those patients, some of whom are in the gallery today.
The Earl Howe report says that the MHRA did all that it could, but it fails to examine whether the system of reporting was adequate, as reports were made directly to the company and might have been used as a substitute for an effective UK reporting system. Systems for reporting on adverse effects generally are an area of concern and, as Malcolm Chisholm said, there was a refusal to test at least some of the extracted implants.
The House of Commons committee has been justifiably critical of the Earl Howe report, although it is a pity that there has not been a greater analysis of it. The Government simply appears to have accepted it as being wholly valid.
I was somewhat disappointed in Maureen Watt’s contribution. Many of the women that we are talking about have had reconstructive surgery, but others who sought private implants did so for quite genuine and reasonable psychological reasons. Although I understand what she is talking about when she talks about the emphasis on body image, it is not particularly relevant.
The stories of the affected women are striking for a number of reasons. It is those women who are asking the Parliament to act to ensure that what happened does not happen again in either this or other contexts, and I will come to that point in a minute. It is those women who are asking for an inquiry in Scotland—because there is a Scottish dimension to the issue. It is they who want the situation not to arise here again.
A number of members have talked about the difficulties that the women encountered as the scandal unfolded. The French Government took strong and decisive action, which contrasted with the rather slower and more confused action that was taken at the UK level. Margaret Burgess’s description of the women’s distress resonated, and that was quite helpful.
When we are told that some women had to pay for removal of the device even once it was established that the producing company had switched from medical grade silicone to industrial grade silicone without telling us and had not passed on information about the level of ruptures, we have to question what private companies were doing.
Those affected tell us that there has been some suggestion of a postcode lottery, so I welcome the minister’s agreement to listen to and take up the issue for any woman who has not had a satisfactory response from the NHS. I hope that the campaign group will spread that information around so that some of the cases that we have already heard about can be raised.
When we hear about the woman who was not only charged for the removal procedure but was charged £100 for disposal of the removed device, we must question the ethics of the private company involved. Some women were also charged when the provider did not think that the removal of the device was necessary, but if a woman faced with the situation wishes to have the device removed because her anxiety levels have increased, she should be entitled to have it removed, especially given the level of fraud that has allegedly occurred. We have particular problems in Scotland, because class actions cannot be taken here, unlike in England, but that is a separate issue that I do not fully understand.
The Howe inquiry has gone so far and the Keogh inquiry will go further, so why do we want to establish our own public inquiry? It is not that we do not welcome both of those inquiries, but if we are serious about a potential move to independence, we will need to consider having not just a Scottish Medicines Consortium to authorise medicines, but a similar body—the 81st regional body—to authorise devices. With 27,000 devices approved, that would be no mean undertaking.
The EU may revise the rules on devices, but it is clear from the scandal and from the scandal that is going to unfold regarding metal-on-metal hip replacements that the regulation of medical devices—particularly those involving implantation—is inadequate. Moreover, we cannot look to the United States for better regulation, as they, too, have problems with what constitutes a threshold for notification by companies of changes in devices. They, too, have their own unfolding scandals.
Scotland and this Government have a duty of care to Scottish residents, as Jackie Baillie and Mary Fee made clear, which falls within the scope of an inquiry. What efforts did the Scottish Government make when the first medical alert came out in March 2010? We are not accusing the Government of inaction once the scandal began to evolve, but there was a medical alert in 2010. Did we, at that point, inform all the providers in Scotland whose regulation we have responsibility for that they must pay heed to that medical alert? Did we, at that point, talk to women who had had implants that were subject to the alert? No, we did not. There was delay, and that must be considered by the inquiry because the issue may also arise in relation to the metal-on-metal scandal that we will shortly face. We need much greater clarity and effort to ensure patients’ safety.
Some issues are reserved, and the MHRA deals with those. The Health Professions Council deals with the regulation of practitioners, but we have responsibility for determining the minimum standards of care, which can include things such as insurance cover and the medical qualifications that we believe are required. For example, should only dentists be able to perform tooth whitening? That is another issue that is coming up. There have been legal cases on the subject, but the fact remains that unqualified people are still performing tooth whitening. Eye laser surgery is not cosmetic, but the level of qualification required of those who undertake it in Scotland is not fully regulated beyond HPC level. Regulations in respect of companies that do marketing in Scotland or undertake surgery in Scotland should be introduced quickly. We passed legislation in 2010, we held a consultation in 2010 and the consultation was completed in July 2011, but we still have not had a report. We have not acted with speed on the issue of more effective regulation of high-street surgery and the private sector; it requires greater speed.
Those are all issues on which we believe a public inquiry is needed to ensure that Scottish patients are adequately protected going forward. I therefore support Jackie Baillie’s motion calling for a public inquiry.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-03294, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on women’s health.10:27
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to debate the PIP breast implant scandal.I welcome some of the women who have been caught up in the scandal, who are here today cam...
The Minister for Public Health (Michael Matheson)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to have the debate. I also welcome those from the Scottish campaign group who have joined us for the debate. They have been at the ...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
One of our concerns is that the second Bruce Keogh review—not the toxicology review—is on cosmetic procedures only. There are many other procedures, such as ...
Michael Matheson
SNP
The review is dealing specifically with the issues that arise from the PIP implant matter, and we should give the review group the opportunity to consider th...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I thank Jackie Baillie for bringing forward the debate, because although we do not agree with her conclusions on the issue we think that it is important that...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
In recognising the scale of the problem, does the member support a public inquiry being held at UK level?
Nanette Milne
Con
I will give the member my reasons for not doing so later.We must remember that silicone implants carry an inherent risk to an individual’s health. No such im...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
We are in a serious and worrying situation, so I am glad that we are having this debate. We should take the opportunity to reassure the many women out there ...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I was quoting the cabinet secretary, who has consistently said that we would perhaps be safer using the upper limit, which is 4,000 women.
Fiona McLeod
SNP
Thank you, Ms Baillie. I confess that I was not at the Health and Sport Committee meeting that day—I was in hospital getting my gallbladder removed. However,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
Come to a conclusion, please.
Fiona McLeod
SNP
I contend that the EU and the UK have swung too far towards self-regulation and self-policing. Given that Scotland has no voice in Europe and only a small vo...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
When I first heard about the PIP silicone scandal, I was shocked. I still cannot comprehend the feelings of anguish and worry that must have been—and still a...
Margaret Burgess (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
SNP
I can only imagine the stress and anxiety that are felt by women who have PIP breast implants. For some time, they have lived with that worry day and daily. ...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP)
SNP
I, too, welcome members of the campaign to the chamber. However, although I have a great deal of sympathy for their situation, I am not sure that a public in...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I did not invent the 4,000 figure; it actually came from the member’s own Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Cities Strategy. Nevertheless, the poin...
Dennis Robertson
SNP
As I said, the 4,000 figure came from the UK Government and relates to the purchase of implants. The cabinet secretary was quite right to highlight the upper...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
I first became very concerned about the issue a few weeks ago when a constituent came to one of my surgeries and showed me photographs of two breast implants...
Maureen Watt (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
SNP
There has been much debate about exactly how many women in Scotland, the UK and across Europe might be affected. Those numbers remain unclear, but we can be ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We turn to the closing speeches. I call Nanette Milne. You have up to five minutes.11:17
Nanette Milne
Con
This has been a worthwhile, interesting and considered debate with good speeches from members in all parts of the chamber. As I said previously, it is import...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
This is not about apportioning blame, but about learning lessons of responsibility for the after-care of the women so that the same mistakes do not happen in...
Nanette Milne
Con
I appreciate that, but I still think that the on-going work and its conclusions will satisfy.It is certainly true that we can continue to improve regulation ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I call Michael Matheson. I can give you around seven minutes, minister.11:22
Michael Matheson
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer.It has been a useful debate. I think that, on reflection, most members would recognise that this is an issue that goes beyond pa...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Michael Matheson
SNP
I am very short of time and I want to cover as many points as I can.A number of members mentioned the introduction of a register. Some members may be aware t...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
As all members have acknowledged, this has been a useful debate, but some questions remain unanswered.Why should there be an inquiry? Why should we not just ...