Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 14 June 2012
14 Jun 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Women’s Representation (Public Sector Boards)
No, thank you. No amount of application information to highly skilled and qualified women through Government DVDs, brochures and e-mailed vacancies are changing a culture where the statistics show us that women fight an uphill battle for board positions, because they know that they will lose out to men. Pretending otherwise is simply burying our heads in the sand. Gender equality at boardroom level has not happened organically in the 13 years that the Parliament has existed, and the statistics tell us that it is unlikely to happen organically in the next 13 years either, unless we take bigger, bolder steps to make it happen.
As a solution, quotas offer us the ability to join other European nations to make a strong statement about our Government’s commitment to the equal value of women’s merit, as well as men’s, and the 40 per cent model that we have proposed does so elegantly. Let me explain it. Boards would require 40 per cent women and 40 per cent men, with flexibility of 20 per cent for boards with an uneven number of members, or in cases where there was an insufficient number of either gender. The model is taken from the highly successful Finnish equality act and it has been proven to work. For as long as we agree that the merit of a man is equal to that of a woman, we should not object to each having an entitlement to a minority 40 per cent representation on the boards that govern all our public services.
I lodged two amendments to the Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Bill that would have introduced a 40 per cent quota on the boards of Scotland’s new police and fire service. I lodged the amendments after learning about the shocking rate of representation of women on the scrutiny boards of our police forces. Those boards hold the police to account. Officers deal with gender-based issues such as domestic abuse and prostitution every day, but the boards that scrutinise the police comprise only 18 per cent women.
As a solution, quotas offer us the ability to join other European nations to make a strong statement about our Government’s commitment to the equal value of women’s merit, as well as men’s, and the 40 per cent model that we have proposed does so elegantly. Let me explain it. Boards would require 40 per cent women and 40 per cent men, with flexibility of 20 per cent for boards with an uneven number of members, or in cases where there was an insufficient number of either gender. The model is taken from the highly successful Finnish equality act and it has been proven to work. For as long as we agree that the merit of a man is equal to that of a woman, we should not object to each having an entitlement to a minority 40 per cent representation on the boards that govern all our public services.
I lodged two amendments to the Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Bill that would have introduced a 40 per cent quota on the boards of Scotland’s new police and fire service. I lodged the amendments after learning about the shocking rate of representation of women on the scrutiny boards of our police forces. Those boards hold the police to account. Officers deal with gender-based issues such as domestic abuse and prostitution every day, but the boards that scrutinise the police comprise only 18 per cent women.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The first item of business is a debate on motion S4M-03289, in the name of Jenny Marra, on women’s representation.09:15
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I am delighted to be able to open a debate on equality in the Scottish Parliament in this, the United Nations year of empowering women. I note that this appe...
Humza Yousaf (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
Why, in the 13 years when it was in power, did the Labour Government not bring in a 40 per cent quota for public sector bodies?
Jenny Marra
Lab
We have always supported equal representation in our party and it is something that we will look towards in the future. We have been out of power for quite a...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jenny Marra
Lab
No, thank you. No amount of application information to highly skilled and qualified women through Government DVDs, brochures and e-mailed vacancies are chang...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Can the member indicate how the appointments to the current police boards are made? My understanding is that the majority of the appointments come from local...
Jenny Marra
Lab
I think that the member will find, if he looks at gender representation among councillors in Scotland, that Labour has a much better record of electing women...
Christine Grahame
SNP
The member is concerned about gender balance and interventions. However, does she agree that the Justice Committee took the view that it is quality on the bo...
Jenny Marra
Lab
If the member had been listening to my speech, she would have found that I have already made the case that a quota enforces the idea of a meritocracy and tha...
The Minister for Commonwealth Games and Sport (Shona Robison)
SNP
I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Scottish Government in this timely debate. I say that it is timely because, as every member ...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I find it very sad that the minister cannot recognise that we have passion for equality. I wish that her party could show the same passion for the issue.
Shona Robison
SNP
A person can be passionate about an issue without having to resort to the petty party-political attacks that we saw Jenny Marra making. If Jenny Marra and th...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Will the minister give way?
Shona Robison
SNP
In a minute.There has been good progress in relation to public appointments over the years, but it is not enough. Our public bodies need board members who re...
Neil Findlay
Lab
The minister’s party regularly points to Scandinavia and to the Norwegian and Finnish Governments. Are those Governments patronising, too?
Shona Robison
SNP
I did not say that. Perhaps the member should have listened. It is refreshing that the Labour Party has stopped denigrating small independent countries and h...
Jenny Marra
Lab
Does the minister acknowledge that this is perhaps the first time that a quota has been proposed in this context? She says that there is no consensus out the...
Shona Robison
SNP
I could not agree more with the member. That is the tone that she should have taken from the start of the debate, because I am happy to work with her and oth...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I shall try not to be provocative or patronising and I shall do my level best to be passionate. I thank Jenny Marra for bringing this important issue to the ...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Annabel Goldie
Con
I am very tight for time. Will the member forgive me if I try to use my five minutes as best I can?Although I certainly broadly sympathise with the thrust of...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We now move to open debate. Time is extremely tight and the Presiding Officers will struggle to get into the debate everybody who wants to speak, so we will ...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the debate and agree that the lack of women’s representation at the highest level of public life—and in private industry—is a concern that everyone...
Jenny Marra
Lab
Will the member give way?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member does not have time.
Clare Adamson
SNP
I am in my last few minutes. A European Commission report, “Women in economic decision-making in the EU”, looks at improved company performance evidenced by ...
John Park (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. We have had several interesting speeches, particularly from Jenny Marra, who mentioned the international as...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
I agreed with much of what John Park said, but Kezia Dugdale and Jenny Marra have quality—they are here not because they are women, but because they are good...
John Park
Lab
May I clarify my point?