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Showing 60 of 2,096,445 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,975. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 11 Jun 2026.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
17:18
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
That concludes decision time.17:31The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The final question is, that motion S7M-00346, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on committee membership, be agreed to.Motion agreed to,That the Parliament agrees the membership of committees of the Parliament as follows—Climate Action Committ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, is: For 67, Against 25, Abstentions 26.Motion, as amended, agreed to,That the Parliament welcomes that the...
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am sorry—I could not connect to the voting app. I would have abstained.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The sixth question is, that motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, is: For 36, Against 67, Abstentions 16.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and Wes...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote will be recorded.
Duncan Dunlop (South Scotland) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I apologise—my vote was not recorded. I would have voted yes.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The fifth question is, that amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, is: For 26, Against 91, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Is...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, is: For 66, Against 27, Abstentions 26.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, is: For 17, Against 92, Abstentions 9.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform)Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform)Langan, Jam...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Malcolm Offord is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Murdo Fraser will fall.The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan M...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, is: For 94, Against 15, Abstentions 9.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Okay, thank you.
Lorna Slater (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Green Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
My apologies, Presiding Officer. That was left over from when the app was not working.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
We come to the vote on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee. Members should cast their vote now.The vote is closed.We have a point of order from Lorna Slater.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.17:18Meeting suspended.17:21On resuming—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
The question on the motion will be put at decision time.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
I hate to disappoint Ivan McKee, but his speech was not the last speech before the world cup. I will also undoubtedly disappoint other members given that we are looking to get out, but I will not take too long.Members will be aware that standing orders require the Parliamentar...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
Go on—why not?
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Jamie Hepburn) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
I will move and speak to the motion, Presiding Officer.
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S7M-00346, on committee membership. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move the motion.17:16
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
That concludes the debate on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Does Mr Kerr want to intervene? I will get the time back, so I am happy to take his point. No, he does not. Okay.We have already saved more than £50 million on estates. I thought that it was 12, but we have now, in fact, shut 13 Scottish Government buildings. Murdo Fraser has ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Mr Kerr, you know to try to intervene rather than to attack from a sedentary position.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I think that the confusion is more broad. The Reform manifesto talks about getting rid of all 130 public bodies—or “quangos”, as they call them. However, there is also a recognition from across the Reform benches that those public bodies—whether Police Scotland, the court syst...
Victor Currie (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Reform Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Does the cabinet secretary recall that Max Bannerman’s point on community wind farms was that they do not rely on subsidies? Therefore, it forms no contradiction in Reform policy on our opposition to net zero.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Yes. David Barratt also draws out the important point that the inconsistency in the Reform position is quite apparent. Reform members say in their amendment that we should not be talking about this stuff, and then they go on to talk about it from very different and contradicto...
David Barratt SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
—renewable energy schemes and for community-owned wind. Does the cabinet secretary agree that that is not the kind of reform that we need?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Hello. It is not a speech within a speech. It is an intervention.
David Barratt SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
In moving the Reform amendment, Malcolm Offord stated that the Scottish Government should have no remit on net zero and energy, and he suggested cutting public bodies that are responsible for related areas. In contrast, Max Bannerman noted the value of community wind power in ...
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I will take David Barratt’s intervention, and then I will go on to talk about those other contributions.
David Barratt (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
In principle, we need stability of funding and to recognise the great work that happens in community organisations, which I see every week in my constituency. That work is absolutely critical, because those organisations are, to a large extent, the front line, and their abilit...
Bob Doris SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I commend the comments on the third sector that we have heard in the chamber this afternoon. I draw the cabinet secretary’s attention to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee’s report on funding of the third and voluntary sectors, and I highlight the longer-term fun...
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
On reflection, I am happy with the extent of the contributions that we have heard this afternoon. As I indicated at the outset, I was keen to hear from members, and that is what has happened for the most part. I will try to pick my way through the mind map that I have in front...
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Before I call the cabinet secretary, I say to members that, if they seek to make an intervention, they should remember to stand up and ask to make an intervention. I notice that buttons are pressed but, sometimes, the speakers do not see who is trying to intervene.17:05
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
We move to the open debate.15:58
Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I congratulate Ivan McKee—I will call him super Ivan, given the scale of his task, based on his speech and the vision that he has set out today.From listening to colleagues from across the chamber, I am struck that there is a lot of common ground here, and I think that we need...
David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I begin by welcoming the cabinet secretary to his new role and wishing him well. As we have already heard, Mr McKee has been handed what might become the defining task of this Government, which is tackling the £5 billion black hole in Scotland’s finances. As Murdo Fraser has j...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I call Murdo Fraser, who joins us online.15:47
Michael Marra Lab Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I point gently to the fact that Alyn Smith’s party had an outright majority in the Parliament for one of those parliamentary sessions, so not having had the numbers is not a foolproof excuse.Alyn Smith will find common ground across different areas. My note of caution to him w...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I should explain that I am having to contribute remotely today due to a family issue; otherwise, I would be in the chamber.I welcome Ivan McKee to his new role as Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Reform. I know that he is keen to dispel the notion that he is here as an axe...
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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 January 2012

18 Jan 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Common Agricultural Policy (Reform)
Fergusson, Alex Con Galloway and West Dumfries Watch on SPTV
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests.

The backdrop to the debate is interesting in that, until recently, the typical reaction from recipients of CAP support to the question of reform tended to be along the lines of, “You must just make sure that we get a fair share of the cake.” That has changed to, “Will there actually be a cake to get a fair share of?” Such is the state of the euro zone, and such is the resultant uncertainty surrounding the European budget, that the size of the cake is now as much in doubt as our share of it. Nonetheless, we can surely assume for the purposes of the debate that the general principles of the proposals will remain the same, whatever the size of the cake—or the budget.

Within the proposals, there are perfectly reasonable and valid arguments about fair shares. I will come to fair shares in Scotland later but, as members have said, there is no doubt that we have a strong case to make for a fairer share of pillar 2 resources, given that we receive the lowest share per hectare in the whole of the EU. I agree with the Rural Affairs and Environment Committee report from the previous session of Parliament that that is an unacceptable situation, not least because of the high proportion of our land that is classified as less favoured. I have no doubt that we are fully justified in seeking a fairer share of that particular cake.

How we do that is open to question, but I hope that the degree of Scottish and UK intergovernmental joint working that marked the recent common fisheries policy negotiations will be replicated in the CAP negotiations. That would be a positive start, and in a very brief meeting that I had with Caroline Spelman last week, I was given the distinct impression that the door is well and truly open. I hope that the cabinet secretary will avail himself of it. I wish both our Governments well as we move towards the negotiations. There is an enormous amount at stake that affects both our rural and national economies and we all have a considerable interest in the outcome.

I will use the time that is available to me to raise one or two concerns about the proposals. The first proposal that I will address is the much-vaunted greening of direct, or pillar 1, payments. The idea is to attach compulsory elements to those payments to ensure that producers undertake activities that are beneficial to the environment and help to tackle climate change. It is hard, if not impossible, to argue with the sentiment of that aspiration, but we need to exercise a degree of caution about the proposal. I have no problem with farmers being asked to produce food in an environmentally sustainable and friendly way, but I do have a problem if that environmental sustainability comes at too great a cost to food production—and I do not mean a financial cost; I mean a cost in terms of output. Food production and security are surely the primary functions of our agricultural sector, and they should remain as such.

Of the three main elements of the greening proposals, which Ms Baker mentioned, crop diversification is barely relevant to Scotland, the definition of permanent pasture as anything over five years old would have a catastrophic impact on our time-served agricultural practices, and the idea of leaving 7 per cent of eligible hectares fallow simply takes us back to the dreadful days of set-aside, which we have finally managed to put behind us. I therefore argue that the rightful place for greening measures is in pillar 2 and that we should be wary of the pillar 1 element of the proposals.

I also harbour major concerns about the local impact of the shift from historical payments to area-based payments—not about the principle, which I fully accept, but about the potential to transfer vast resources from our most productive agricultural areas to our least productive areas. In 2009, the total value of single farm payment entitlements was €56 per hectare in Caithness and Sutherland and €256 in Dumfries and Galloway. That is not a measure of unfairness; I believe that it is a measure of comparable productivity based on historical support payments.

What we must therefore strive to achieve is as fair a redistribution of support as is possible, coupled with as long a period of transition as is possible, to allow our producers to adjust their businesses to any new system of support. Farmers are extraordinarily flexible in adapting to what their political paymasters ask of them, but they need time to make adjustments and we must ensure that they get it.

Time is something that is running out for me, which from my perspective is a great shame as I have an enormous amount that I would like to discuss. To the detriment of the chamber, I will not be able to do that. However, I will mention the need to create a year-on-year national reserve, which the convener of the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee and I briefly discussed, and the need to support new entrants to farming. That issue is terribly important and it needs extensive debate. In Scotland, it cannot be divorced from the need for a policy on land tenure that encourages those who have land to let to do so without fear that it will be taken from them.

We also need to discuss the forestry sector, which was hugely disadvantaged by the transition period during the previous reforms, as the convener briefly mentioned. Bridging the gap between periods of reform is vital, and it is a good note on which to wind up. I do not think that anybody really expects the reforms, whatever their final shape, to commence on time in 2014. Therefore, all Governments must be prepared to have an arrangement in place to ensure that CAP support is continued to all recipients so that their work can continue uninterrupted in the event of any slippage.

At the end of the procedure, we must not forget that there is a world out there to be fed. It is a world that is expanding rapidly, and the ability to feed it, and ourselves, must remain the priority for current and future CAP reform. I wish the committee nothing but success in its continued deliberations.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-01679, in the name of Rob Gibson, on the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee’s scruti...
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) SNP
The common agricultural policy proposals that are to be set in place by January 2014 must be made to be good for Scotland’s highly successful food and drink ...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
Does the convener agree that there is also a need to create a year-on-year national reserve, so that people who enter farming after the base year are able to...
Rob Gibson SNP
We do, indeed, believe that a national reserve is very important.Stakeholders were concerned about the trigger for eligibility for payments, and the new entr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
I call Richard Lochhead, who has a tight nine minutes.15:17
The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead) SNP
I am delighted to speak on the future of the common agricultural policy. I thank the committee for bringing this important debate to Parliament.This is a cru...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I warned the cabinet secretary that I have a brief point to make. What are his views on what the voluntary modulation rate and the rate of co-financing will ...
Richard Lochhead SNP
I thank the member for the notice that he gave me just before I sat down. He raises an important issue. On co-financing and pillar 2 of rural development fun...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
The roadshow that his officials conducted in Shetland was extremely helpful, but the statement that there would be little or no change to the bureaucratic im...
Richard Lochhead SNP
Tavish Scott raises a very good point. The only bit of good news that I have on that point is that all member states across Europe share his concern. I hope ...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Richard Lochhead SNP
I apologise to Mr Scott for not giving way, but I am running out of time.Future CAP processes must be simpler for farmers and Government alike, with regulato...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open for Labour in the debate.I welcome the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee’s work in considering the CAP reform prop...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
You should begin to conclude.
Claire Baker Lab
I have only one paragraph left, Presiding Officer.Such a cut would be very difficult for Scottish farming and would make it very difficult for the CAP to del...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests.The backdrop to the debate is interesting in that, until recently, the typical reaction fro...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We now turn to the open debate. Speeches are of six minutes, but as we are very tight for time, it would be appreciated if members were able to make their co...
Aileen McLeod (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, and as a South Scotland list MSP who represents a large rural and farming communi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I reiterate to members how short of time we are and that we will not be able to get everyone into the debate if members take more than six minutes. I therefo...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate on the common agricultural policy. I congratulate Rob Gibson and the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP) SNP
As is Alex Fergusson—his recent departure from the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee has deprived the committee of a valued and conside...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Last week, I remarked on how unusual it was to have a committee debate before a report had been published. That worked well in last week’s Education and Cult...
Jean Urquhart (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
Farming and rural communities will welcome the programme of meetings that are being held across the country, and the invitation to submit recommendations. It...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD) LD
I thank the clerks and the Scottish Parliament information centre for their hard work on the subject and on the many other subjects that the Rural Affairs, C...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
Presiding Officer, I have a confession to make: I cannot pretend to understand properly the common agricultural policy, some of which is mind-boggling in its...
Alex Fergusson Con
I am sorry to interrupt a very good speech. Does Mike MacKenzie accept that the door of DEFRA is, as I understand it, open to the cabinet secretary, just as ...
Mike MacKenzie SNP
I am delighted to take Alex Fergusson’s assurance that the door is now open, although I am sure that he would agree that there have been occasions in the pas...
Jim Hume LD
Is Mike MacKenzie just picking numbers out of the blue?
Mike MacKenzie SNP
I understand that the number of MEPs would be in the region of 20. Of course, that will be a matter to be decided when the great day comes. I look forward to...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
Having recently left the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, I would like to start by saying how much I enjoyed serving on that committe...