Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 17 May 2012
17 May 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Civilian Police Staff
As the cabinet secretary acknowledged, support staff have made and will continue to make an important contribution to reducing crime and making Scotland safer. We need to ensure a proper framework for the operation of the new police force.
Labour’s motion says that cuts to support staff
“are detrimental to the ability of the police service to protect the public”,
but we have not heard much about that—perhaps the closing Labour speaker will refer to it. Is it not the case that cutting police numbers instead would be far more damaging to the police service’s ability to protect the public?
09:56
Labour’s motion says that cuts to support staff
“are detrimental to the ability of the police service to protect the public”,
but we have not heard much about that—perhaps the closing Labour speaker will refer to it. Is it not the case that cutting police numbers instead would be far more damaging to the police service’s ability to protect the public?
09:56
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The first item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02906, in name of Lewis Macdonald, on justice. Members who wish to take part in the debate should press ...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
It is a week since we debated the Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Bill and it completed stage 1 of its passage through Parliament. We in the Labour Party s...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
Is Lewis Macdonald implying that this should not be an operational matter for the chief constable, who is accountable to the board? Is he really suggesting t...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
It is not a question of whether or not I think ministers should direct chief constables; the cabinet secretary has said that he will direct the chief constab...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
For the sake of balance, I point out that, in evidence, Chief Constable Kevin Smith said:“There is a notion that for every member of support staff that goes ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I will give you a few more minutes, Mr Macdonald.
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer.That is certainly ACPOS’s intention in its approach to the process, but it would not have told the Justice Committee that there ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I welcome the debate and the opportunity that it offers to consider an important issue. I say at the outset that the Government recognises and values the eno...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Would the cabinet secretary be good enough to acknowledge that crime rates have fallen across Europe and that, in America, they are approaching a 50-year low...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
The situation is down to splendid work by the wider police family. I have commented that other factors are involved, but I believe that there is, particularl...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary nonetheless acknowledge that his current approach to civilian staff taking on roles that were formerly done by police officers is ...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
That takes me back to the point that that is an operational matter for the chief constable. It is not appropriate for me to intervene in Lothian and Borders ...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
What percentage cut will be made to the police budget as a result of the plans?
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
We are protecting police budgets and police numbers. That contrasts with Yvette Cooper’s position, which is why I got a standing ovation at the Scottish Poli...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
In the context of the current events—the largest reform of Scotland’s policing for more than a generation—this morning’s debate is important and I thank the ...
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee City West) (SNP)
SNP
How many civilian staff have lost their jobs through compulsory redundancy as a result of the Liberal Democrat-Conservative Government at Westminster?
Alison McInnes
LD
Mr FitzPatrick would do well to focus on what we are here to focus on, which is the running of the service in this country, for which responsibility sits wit...
David McLetchie (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I welcome the opportunity to debate the future of civilian staff in Scotland’s police forces, which touches on topics that we discussed last week during the ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We will now move to the open debate. Members have a strict four minutes. I regret that, if you take interventions, I will be not be able to give you addition...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
Obviously, we have to say that these are not times of plenty. Let us begin at the beginning. I repeat the cabinet secretary’s words:“we are making a virtue o...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Will the member give way?
Christine Grahame
SNP
I am sorry, but I have only four minutes, and I have things that I want to say.Thirdly, it is of course appropriate for two reasons that Opposition parties a...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member has 30 seconds.
Christine Grahame
SNP
I say to Alison McInnes that crime figures and the fear of crime are falling notwithstanding civilian jobs going.In England, Theresa May was told by the Poli...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I am sorry to cut you off, Ms Grahame, but I need to call Graeme Pearson.09:49
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
The effective delivery of policing requires, among other things, the Government to provide confidence to police and police staff about their future in respec...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP)
SNP
There is a strong sense of déjà vu about the debate. Last week, during the stage 1 debate on the Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Bill, I reminded the chamb...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member has no time to take an intervention.
Roderick Campbell
SNP
As the cabinet secretary acknowledged, support staff have made and will continue to make an important contribution to reducing crime and making Scotland safe...