Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 13 June 2012
13 Jun 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Victims and Witnesses (Improving Services)
Scotland’s devolved Parliament has had a strong focus on support for victims and witnesses since its beginnings 13 years ago. The Labour-led devolved Government was committed to tackling crime and the causes of crime, starting from the recognition that victims often live in the same communities as perpetrators and that it is just as important to support victims and give witnesses the confidence to come forward as it is to catch and punish the offenders.
That was why the first devolved Government launched the Scottish strategy for victims in 2001, which aimed to turn the United Nations Declaration of Basic Principles of Justice for Victims of Crime and Abuse of Power into a reality for people in Scotland. That Scottish strategy was designed in co-operation with partner organisations such as local councils and health boards, and voluntary organisations such as Victim Support Scotland. It recognised that most victims and many witnesses were frightened and shocked by their experiences, but typically had few rights in the justice system, which was focused on the guilt or innocence of the accused rather than on the impact of crimes on others. Victims needed much greater support from the justice system and from public bodies, and there was clearly a challenge for voluntary organisations, too.
Everyone now recognises that support from the justice system is important right through the weeks and months leading up to court appearances, a time which can be just as traumatic for many victims and witnesses as the immediate aftermath of the crime. The Scottish strategy took a lead in recognising that victims needed practical as well as emotional support; financial assistance; advice about what to expect in court; access to all the information that is needed to understand the justice system and what was happening in their own case; and an opportunity to play a greater role in the justice system.
The longer-term aim, as expressed by ministers at that time, was to increase public confidence in both the police and the courts, in order to strengthen the justice system. Ministers recognised that that was never going to be a one-off initiative and that it had to be able to adapt to changes in the justice system and to the demands placed upon partner organisations. As ministers said in 2001,
“The strategy thus represents the start of a process, not the end, and it will evolve and develop through time”.
That was the intention then, and I hope that today’s debate means that that process of evolution and development can now move forward and that, as the cabinet secretary has said, it will do so with broad, cross-party support.
It is important to remember how much of the system we have now has come into being only in the past 10 years, for example through the rolling-out of the witness service to all the sheriff courts across Scotland; the extension of Strathclyde’s witness protection scheme to the whole country; legislation to allow victims to be told when the person who is convicted of a crime against them is due to be released from jail; the introduction of a child witness support system to improve the evidence-giving process by providing separate rooms for prosecution witnesses in courts; and the provision of advice in languages other than English. Those are all significant changes that have been made with broad support, and which were made in the period of that earlier Government. The work that was done then and has been done since has enabled many more people to access the services of organisations such as Victim Support Scotland because of the funding that has been made available.
It is worth recalling that the Vulnerable Witnesses (Scotland) Act 2004 and the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 2004 date from only eight years ago and that they achieved many of the things that the strategy originally identified as targets. Indeed, Hugh Henry, who was then the Deputy Minister for Justice, said at the time:
“we need to build on the good work that has already taken place, as well as take into account the changes that have happened since 2001.”
That is reflected in today’s debate and I hope that that view will be supported by ministers in the present Government.
The cabinet secretary rightly pointed out that changes have been made since 2007 that have added further to what was done in the previous few years. For example, there has been an increase in the number of victims who can benefit from the notification scheme that was launched in 2003. However, we must acknowledge the scale, the pace and the focus of reform in the past five years compared with the previous five years. I hope that today’s debate, which has been a long time coming, will enable us to move that agenda forward.
Victims and witnesses have remained a top priority for this party in opposition as in government. Our pledges in our most recent manifesto included the creation of a victims fund requiring convicted offenders to pay towards the cost of victim support services; tougher action to tackle domestic abuse, including the extension of Glasgow's successful dedicated domestic abuse court throughout Scotland, as well as more powers for police and courts in response to breached civil protection orders; a further increase in the scope of the victim notification scheme; and a charter of victims’ rights, monitored by a victims commissioner, to ensure that the justice system plays its full part in supporting victims and witnesses.
We recognise that, in the consultation paper that the cabinet secretary mentioned, the present Government has taken forward many, although not all, of the proposals we made in 2011 and previously. Of course, we welcome the fact that it has done so, but we believe that there is room for further progress.
We would like the Glasgow model of a dedicated court for dealing with domestic violence and abuse to be rolled out beyond our major cities to offer the same level of protection to victims and potential victims throughout Scotland. We would also like the model of a domestic abuse task force that has been developed by Strathclyde Police to be pursued elsewhere in the country. Given the Government’s timetable for establishing a single police force within the next few months, it would be helpful if ministers could today indicate their support for that model of tackling domestic abuse. [Interruption.]
That was why the first devolved Government launched the Scottish strategy for victims in 2001, which aimed to turn the United Nations Declaration of Basic Principles of Justice for Victims of Crime and Abuse of Power into a reality for people in Scotland. That Scottish strategy was designed in co-operation with partner organisations such as local councils and health boards, and voluntary organisations such as Victim Support Scotland. It recognised that most victims and many witnesses were frightened and shocked by their experiences, but typically had few rights in the justice system, which was focused on the guilt or innocence of the accused rather than on the impact of crimes on others. Victims needed much greater support from the justice system and from public bodies, and there was clearly a challenge for voluntary organisations, too.
Everyone now recognises that support from the justice system is important right through the weeks and months leading up to court appearances, a time which can be just as traumatic for many victims and witnesses as the immediate aftermath of the crime. The Scottish strategy took a lead in recognising that victims needed practical as well as emotional support; financial assistance; advice about what to expect in court; access to all the information that is needed to understand the justice system and what was happening in their own case; and an opportunity to play a greater role in the justice system.
The longer-term aim, as expressed by ministers at that time, was to increase public confidence in both the police and the courts, in order to strengthen the justice system. Ministers recognised that that was never going to be a one-off initiative and that it had to be able to adapt to changes in the justice system and to the demands placed upon partner organisations. As ministers said in 2001,
“The strategy thus represents the start of a process, not the end, and it will evolve and develop through time”.
That was the intention then, and I hope that today’s debate means that that process of evolution and development can now move forward and that, as the cabinet secretary has said, it will do so with broad, cross-party support.
It is important to remember how much of the system we have now has come into being only in the past 10 years, for example through the rolling-out of the witness service to all the sheriff courts across Scotland; the extension of Strathclyde’s witness protection scheme to the whole country; legislation to allow victims to be told when the person who is convicted of a crime against them is due to be released from jail; the introduction of a child witness support system to improve the evidence-giving process by providing separate rooms for prosecution witnesses in courts; and the provision of advice in languages other than English. Those are all significant changes that have been made with broad support, and which were made in the period of that earlier Government. The work that was done then and has been done since has enabled many more people to access the services of organisations such as Victim Support Scotland because of the funding that has been made available.
It is worth recalling that the Vulnerable Witnesses (Scotland) Act 2004 and the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 2004 date from only eight years ago and that they achieved many of the things that the strategy originally identified as targets. Indeed, Hugh Henry, who was then the Deputy Minister for Justice, said at the time:
“we need to build on the good work that has already taken place, as well as take into account the changes that have happened since 2001.”
That is reflected in today’s debate and I hope that that view will be supported by ministers in the present Government.
The cabinet secretary rightly pointed out that changes have been made since 2007 that have added further to what was done in the previous few years. For example, there has been an increase in the number of victims who can benefit from the notification scheme that was launched in 2003. However, we must acknowledge the scale, the pace and the focus of reform in the past five years compared with the previous five years. I hope that today’s debate, which has been a long time coming, will enable us to move that agenda forward.
Victims and witnesses have remained a top priority for this party in opposition as in government. Our pledges in our most recent manifesto included the creation of a victims fund requiring convicted offenders to pay towards the cost of victim support services; tougher action to tackle domestic abuse, including the extension of Glasgow's successful dedicated domestic abuse court throughout Scotland, as well as more powers for police and courts in response to breached civil protection orders; a further increase in the scope of the victim notification scheme; and a charter of victims’ rights, monitored by a victims commissioner, to ensure that the justice system plays its full part in supporting victims and witnesses.
We recognise that, in the consultation paper that the cabinet secretary mentioned, the present Government has taken forward many, although not all, of the proposals we made in 2011 and previously. Of course, we welcome the fact that it has done so, but we believe that there is room for further progress.
We would like the Glasgow model of a dedicated court for dealing with domestic violence and abuse to be rolled out beyond our major cities to offer the same level of protection to victims and potential victims throughout Scotland. We would also like the model of a domestic abuse task force that has been developed by Strathclyde Police to be pursued elsewhere in the country. Given the Government’s timetable for establishing a single police force within the next few months, it would be helpful if ministers could today indicate their support for that model of tackling domestic abuse. [Interruption.]
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-03278, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on improving services for victims and witnesses.14:34
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to open the debate on making justice work for victims and witnesses. Under the Scottish Government’s making justice work pr...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
Has the cabinet secretary estimated what revenue the proposed victim surcharge would bring in in the next few years?
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
We are looking at those matters. The answer is that that will depend. I am happy to share whatever information we have to date, but the measures that I am ta...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
Can the cabinet secretary give an assurance that the category of victims of sexual offences and domestic abuse will include victims of stalking?
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
I am assuming that that will be the case, but I will confirm that for the member. Given the nature of that offence, I would be surprised if that was not the ...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Scotland’s devolved Parliament has had a strong focus on support for victims and witnesses since its beginnings 13 years ago. The Labour-led devolved Governm...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Can whoever has their phone on please switch it off?
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
Presiding Officer, I apologise to the member. I thought that I had switched it off, but I am obviously incompetent with this thing.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Thank you, Ms Grahame.
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Christine Grahame’s apology is, of course, acknowledged and accepted. I thank her for that helpful intervention, which I am sure will not cost me too much sp...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Annabel Goldie has seven minutes.14:59
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. My normal challenge when speaking is to ensure that audiences remain awake. I fear that, if I speak more slowly, the situation ...
David Stewart
Lab
Does Annabel Goldie agree that it is inconsistent that prisoners have their own commissioner but victims do not?
Annabel Goldie
Con
That certainly seems to be illogical. The proposal could—with tweaking—go a long way towards addressing the needs of victims. The situation might then be ade...
Christine Grahame
SNP
It is commendable that Annabel Goldie has agreed that the cabinet secretary has taken steps in that direction, but does she agree that we need more prisoner ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Ms Goldie, I will compensate you for the intervention.
Annabel Goldie
Con
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer.In response to Christine Grahame’s intervention, the building programme is, I presume, precisely what her party took i...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Annabel Goldie
Con
I am sorry, but I am pushed for time and I have already taken an intervention.Automatic early release of prisoners is a discredited anachronism that perplexe...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We now move to the open debate. We have a fair amount of time in hand; the six minutes for speeches will be a generous six minutes, and members will be compe...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
On Annabel Goldie’s comment, my understanding of “Strike it Lucky” is that participants had to avoid hitting hot spots.The Scottish Government, in introducin...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Mark McDonald
SNP
I will finish my point, first.One of the difficulties is that gaps emerge and individuals often fall into them. One of the key things that we need to do is f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
Humza Yousaf.
Hanzala Malik
Lab
No.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I am sorry. It is Hanzala Malik. I beg your pardon.
Hanzala Malik
Lab
Thank you very much. I am not sure that Humza would appreciate that, but I certainly do. Laughter.I compliment Mark McDonald for what he said about victim su...
Mark McDonald
SNP
Hanzala Malik has made an excellent point and I am sure that the Government will be acutely aware of the need for appropriate support to be given to victims ...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?