Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 21 June 2012
21 Jun 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Families
I thank Kezia Dugdale for her informative speech—I will certainly visit the cafe that is just around the corner from here. I also thank Nanette Milne for initiating the debate. As many members have said, the problem affects many families throughout Scotland. Neil Bibby and other members were correct to mention the consensus in the debate. We all feel exactly the same way—we want to do something positive and work together.
I will expand on the benefits changes that the Westminster Government has proposed, and which Maureen Watt touched on. Under those changes, claimants who have drug and alcohol problems will be forced into accepting treatment. Otherwise, their benefits will be cut. Kezia Dugdale has talked about people with chaotic lifestyles being forced into treatment. It is difficult for such people to cope with bureaucracy. Conservative members should let their counterparts in Westminster know what we are doing in Scotland and tell them that the proposals will be counterproductive to the work that is being undertaken in Parliament and throughout Scotland. The changes are the worst thing that could happen to drug users. The demands that will be made on them will do more harm than good.
Christine Duncan of Scottish Families Affected by Drugs said:
“Proposals from the UK Government to link benefits with accessing drug and alcohol treatment are quite worrying as this would have the impact of adding pressure to someone’s personal attempts at recovery which can only impact even more on families and carers. We support the Scottish Drugs Forum call to the Scottish Government to maintain the thrust of the Road to Recovery.”
I accept what Nanette Milne said about recovery and relapse, but we need to look at the benefits system, because the changes will do more harm than good.
I pay tribute to the many groups and individuals who face every day the reality of drug abuse and its tragic consequences. For example, Glasgow North United Communities provides fantastic support to families and individuals whose lives have been affected and, in many cases, completely destroyed by drug abuse. As Neil Bibby and other members have, I have visited many such groups and individuals in the Glasgow area and know of situations in which grandparents look after their grandchildren, sometimes while still looking after their grown-up children who have drug problems. There are individuals who have reached rock-bottom and if it was not for the support of families and support groups, they simply would not be here today. I take my hat off to those grandparents. I will not recount individual constituents’ stories, but some of those stories would have you on your knees. They are people who are just trying to get through life.
Kezia Dugdale and others have referred to the stigma of drug abuse. We talk about families in terms of grandparents, mothers, brothers, sisters and fathers, but there is a bigger family out there and people with drugs problems have to spend a long while in recovery mode before they can get back into the family group as a mother or father, for example. I pay tribute to the effort that such people make. They sometimes do not have support at the start, but they tend to find it. However, it can still take them many years to recover.
Members may think that I am not being consensual in terms of the debate, but I believe that we need to look at the UK Government’s benefits changes. I hope that we are trying to ensure that people with drug problems are on the road to recovery and will not relapse, but if they are forced into getting treatment that may not be suitable for them, they probably will relapse and all the good work will be wasted.
10:06
I will expand on the benefits changes that the Westminster Government has proposed, and which Maureen Watt touched on. Under those changes, claimants who have drug and alcohol problems will be forced into accepting treatment. Otherwise, their benefits will be cut. Kezia Dugdale has talked about people with chaotic lifestyles being forced into treatment. It is difficult for such people to cope with bureaucracy. Conservative members should let their counterparts in Westminster know what we are doing in Scotland and tell them that the proposals will be counterproductive to the work that is being undertaken in Parliament and throughout Scotland. The changes are the worst thing that could happen to drug users. The demands that will be made on them will do more harm than good.
Christine Duncan of Scottish Families Affected by Drugs said:
“Proposals from the UK Government to link benefits with accessing drug and alcohol treatment are quite worrying as this would have the impact of adding pressure to someone’s personal attempts at recovery which can only impact even more on families and carers. We support the Scottish Drugs Forum call to the Scottish Government to maintain the thrust of the Road to Recovery.”
I accept what Nanette Milne said about recovery and relapse, but we need to look at the benefits system, because the changes will do more harm than good.
I pay tribute to the many groups and individuals who face every day the reality of drug abuse and its tragic consequences. For example, Glasgow North United Communities provides fantastic support to families and individuals whose lives have been affected and, in many cases, completely destroyed by drug abuse. As Neil Bibby and other members have, I have visited many such groups and individuals in the Glasgow area and know of situations in which grandparents look after their grandchildren, sometimes while still looking after their grown-up children who have drug problems. There are individuals who have reached rock-bottom and if it was not for the support of families and support groups, they simply would not be here today. I take my hat off to those grandparents. I will not recount individual constituents’ stories, but some of those stories would have you on your knees. They are people who are just trying to get through life.
Kezia Dugdale and others have referred to the stigma of drug abuse. We talk about families in terms of grandparents, mothers, brothers, sisters and fathers, but there is a bigger family out there and people with drugs problems have to spend a long while in recovery mode before they can get back into the family group as a mother or father, for example. I pay tribute to the effort that such people make. They sometimes do not have support at the start, but they tend to find it. However, it can still take them many years to recover.
Members may think that I am not being consensual in terms of the debate, but I believe that we need to look at the UK Government’s benefits changes. I hope that we are trying to ensure that people with drug problems are on the road to recovery and will not relapse, but if they are forced into getting treatment that may not be suitable for them, they probably will relapse and all the good work will be wasted.
10:06
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
Good morning. The first item of business is a debate on motion S4M-03394, in the name of Nanette Milne, on families. I remind all members that time is extrem...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I begin by indicating that we are happy to accept both amendments.It is well recognised that Scotland still has an enormous problem with drug addiction, whic...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I call Roseanna Cunningham to speak to and move amendment S4M-03394.1. Minister, you have no more than seven minutes.09:25
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Roseanna Cunningham)
SNP
I welcome the motion and the Labour amendment. Nanette Milne is absolutely right—the role of families is key to the success of our national drug strategy “Th...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I have listened carefully to the minister’s comments about the recovery programmes, which I fully support, and I support everything that Nanette Milne said, ...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
The member will accept that, in a speech of seven minutes, I cannot touch on every issue, but I am aware of the mental health problems that go along with dru...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I thank Nanette Milne for bringing forward this debate on supporting families who are affected by drugs. It is an important and challenging debate on an issu...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We move to the open debate. I remind everyone that we are tight for time and that speeches will be no more than four minutes long.09:37
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
SNP
I thank Nanette Milne for raising an important issue that, such is the scale of substance misuse in our nation, is—I am sorry to say—relevant to every member...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
The debate is likely to be consensual, which reflects the fact that under the previous minister in the previous parliamentary session agreement on the recove...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member needs to wind up.
Dr Simpson
Lab
We should praise Scottish Families Affected by Drugs, welcome the work that is done by the Scottish Drugs Forum and call on the Government to continue its co...
Maureen Watt (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
SNP
I am glad that Nanette Milne managed to bring the topic to the chamber as a Conservative business debate this morning; it was originally going to be a member...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
The debate has already shown that there is not an MSP in the chamber or anyone who is involved in making policy on children who does not believe that good-qu...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I congratulate Nanette Milne on bringing this important debate to the chamber. I know that her original intention was to have a members’ business debate on t...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Not long after my election, I took on the role of co-convener of the cross-party group on drug and alcohol misuse, and through it I have learned a tremendous...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I thank Kezia Dugdale for her informative speech—I will certainly visit the cafe that is just around the corner from here. I also thank Nanette Milne for ini...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
I, too, thank the Conservatives for using their debating time this morning to highlight the role of families who are in recovery from drug abuse and—in parti...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
The debate has been very good, and it is timely and worth while. I thank Nanette Milne and the Conservatives for bringing the topic to the chamber. In the pa...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
I thank members for the many thoughtful contributions on a significant issue affecting families in Scotland. One of the essential values of the Scottish Parl...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I thank Nanette Milne for moving the motion and allowing a debate on one of the biggest issues that Scotland faces today. As Richard Simpson said, the debate...