Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 18 April 2012
18 Apr 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland Bill
I will take no lectures from anybody who is associated with the UK Government on issues to do with alcohol. The member is following us everywhere as far as that is concerned.
We believe fundamentally that decisions on our nation are best taken by the people who live here. They are the ones who are likely to care the most about the outcomes. That is a question of democracy. Let me finish by showing how democracy in Scotland is being undermined.
First, in the May 2011 election, the Scottish Government stood on a clear programme of improvements to the Scotland Bill. The Government was returned with an overwhelming mandate. We put forward our proposals for changes—backed by the people—to the bill. We provided detailed plans and answered questions when they were asked, but those very reasonable proposals fell on the stony ground of the anti-independence parties’ intransigence. It is for others to justify that stance—I hope that they will do so today—despite the fact that many of their number are now arguing that many of those self-same powers should be devolved to the Scottish Parliament.
Secondly, we are now looking forward to a referendum on our nation’s future. Independence, or what? It is for the Scottish Government to define the benefits of independence. We have done that, and we shall, but those who are telling Scotland to vote no refuse to say what that vote would mean. It is simply unacceptable to go into a referendum on the greatest question that our nation has faced in 300 years without telling the people of Scotland what they are voting for. “Only when you vote no can we work out what happens next,” is the only position that the anti-independence parties seem to share. Their proposition is everything that a referendum must not be. The anti-independence parties’ position is unfair to the people. It is not open with the people, it is not clear to the people and it is profoundly undemocratic.
The Scotland Bill has now been bypassed by history and events. Its promoters are already looking past it, although so far they have been reluctant to say what they can see. The Government has a clear view. Independence is the only state that will allow Scotland to flourish to the full. We will allow the people that choice. In the meantime, we have secured a bill that will not harm Scotland’s interests and will provide some increase in responsibilities to this Parliament.
I move,
That the Parliament, further to motion S3M-8114 passed on 10 March 2011, notes the letters exchanged between the Scottish and UK governments on 21 March 2012 and agrees that the Scotland Bill, introduced in the House of Commons on 30 November 2010, as amended, should be considered by the UK Parliament.
15:44
We believe fundamentally that decisions on our nation are best taken by the people who live here. They are the ones who are likely to care the most about the outcomes. That is a question of democracy. Let me finish by showing how democracy in Scotland is being undermined.
First, in the May 2011 election, the Scottish Government stood on a clear programme of improvements to the Scotland Bill. The Government was returned with an overwhelming mandate. We put forward our proposals for changes—backed by the people—to the bill. We provided detailed plans and answered questions when they were asked, but those very reasonable proposals fell on the stony ground of the anti-independence parties’ intransigence. It is for others to justify that stance—I hope that they will do so today—despite the fact that many of their number are now arguing that many of those self-same powers should be devolved to the Scottish Parliament.
Secondly, we are now looking forward to a referendum on our nation’s future. Independence, or what? It is for the Scottish Government to define the benefits of independence. We have done that, and we shall, but those who are telling Scotland to vote no refuse to say what that vote would mean. It is simply unacceptable to go into a referendum on the greatest question that our nation has faced in 300 years without telling the people of Scotland what they are voting for. “Only when you vote no can we work out what happens next,” is the only position that the anti-independence parties seem to share. Their proposition is everything that a referendum must not be. The anti-independence parties’ position is unfair to the people. It is not open with the people, it is not clear to the people and it is profoundly undemocratic.
The Scotland Bill has now been bypassed by history and events. Its promoters are already looking past it, although so far they have been reluctant to say what they can see. The Government has a clear view. Independence is the only state that will allow Scotland to flourish to the full. We will allow the people that choice. In the meantime, we have secured a bill that will not harm Scotland’s interests and will provide some increase in responsibilities to this Parliament.
I move,
That the Parliament, further to motion S3M-8114 passed on 10 March 2011, notes the letters exchanged between the Scottish and UK governments on 21 March 2012 and agrees that the Scotland Bill, introduced in the House of Commons on 30 November 2010, as amended, should be considered by the UK Parliament.
15:44
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02625, in the name of Bruce Crawford, on the Scotland Bill, which is United Kingdom legislation. I invite...
The Cabinet Secretary for Parliamentary Business and Government Strategy (Bruce Crawford)
SNP
The Scottish Government is today inviting the Parliament to consent to the Scotland Bill, which was introduced into the UK Parliament on 30 November 2010. Th...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lab
Can the cabinet secretary remind us of the six proposals that the Government made after the last election and tell us how many of them have been included in ...
Bruce Crawford
SNP
Every party in the chamber has publicly said that Scotland should be granted more powers than are currently in the bill. However, we live in pretty strange t...
David McLetchie (Lothian) (Con)
Con
How many proposals?
Bruce Crawford
SNP
I have just dealt with that point. Those proposals included a role for this Parliament in commencing the finance provisions of the bill as well as the remova...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Michael Russell)
SNP
Nae point.
Bruce Crawford
SNP
Yes, there is nae point.Following negotiations between the Governments, a number of legislative and non-legislative measures have now been agreed to improve ...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
The minister did not mention alcohol duty. Is that because he is embarrassed by the fact that he did not present the proposals until after the committee had ...
Bruce Crawford
SNP
I will take no lectures from anybody who is associated with the UK Government on issues to do with alcohol. The member is following us everywhere as far as t...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in this afternoon’s debate on the Scotland Bill. I confirm that the Labour Party will support the motion at decision t...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Mr Kelly talks about more responsibility, but does he believe that the bill provides the right level of responsibility, or does he think that we should have ...
James Kelly
Lab
What struck me from our discussions in the Scotland Bill Committee on having more powers over income tax and how that would operate is that, as the SNP gets ...
Bruce Crawford
SNP
Given what he says, will the member explain how, in Stirling Council, in my constituency, the Labour Party, in conjunction with the Tories, was able to put f...
James Kelly
Lab
Make no mistake, Mr Crawford—the SNP Government is passing on £658 million of cuts to local councils. We will remind the SNP of that from now until polling d...
David McLetchie (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Like James Kelly, I commend Linda Fabiani for her convenership of the Scotland Bill Committee. I very much enjoyed my participation in it, as I enjoyed my pa...
Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP)
SNP
It is interesting that we have just heard two representatives of the anti-independence parties, but they have not said anything yet about what they would wis...
Willie Rennie
LD
I note all the things that the member has said, but I think that she fails to understand the point. We made a submission to the commission as part of a proce...
Linda Fabiani
SNP
Can I presume that it is the same with broadcasting—the Lib Dem Steel commission wanted greater accountability for that—and excise duty? In the Lib Dem submi...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
The Calman commission was established by the then Labour leader Wendy Alexander prior to the 2011 election, and the subsequent Scotland Bill that emerged fro...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Neil Findlay
Lab
Not at the moment.I state openly that I hope that the Scotland Bill will enable a move forward to genuinely progressive taxation that seeks to redistribute t...
Joan McAlpine
SNP
Will the member take an intervention now?
Neil Findlay
Lab
I will not take one now, because you are mentioned later in my speech, so you will probably want to come in then.The First Minister wanted powers over excise...
Joan McAlpine
SNP
You expressed your concern about welfare. I think that this Parliament is united—certainly Labour and the SNP are united—in agreement that the welfare change...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
I remind all members to speak through the chair.
Neil Findlay
Lab
I do not think that you are in a very strong position to argue over what you want in the Scotland Bill, since you did not want it in the first place.Of cours...
Linda Fabiani
SNP
Will the member give way?
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Neil Findlay
Lab
No, thank you.We should not be surprised by the SNP’s budget day backtrack—not just on this bill, but on everything else that it wanted to ditch. Saying one ...