Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 18 April 2012
18 Apr 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland Bill
Yes, there is nae point.
Following negotiations between the Governments, a number of legislative and non-legislative measures have now been agreed to improve the bill and address our concerns. It is important that Parliament knows about those, so I will list the major ones. Consistent with the principle of consent in the UK Government’s statement of funding policy, both Governments should reach agreement on implementation issues, including adjustments to the block grant, to take account of the Scottish Parliament’s new fiscal powers. Each Government should also provide assurance to its Parliament before relevant provisions of the bill are brought into force and before implementation arrangements are brought into effect.
The Governments will develop an adjustment to the Scottish block grant based on the proposals of the Holtham commission on the funding of the Welsh Assembly Government. There will be transparency for both Parliaments on implementation and a statutory duty on both Governments to report regularly to their respective Parliaments on the implementation of the financial aspects of the bill.
There will also be discussions between the Governments on devolving additional taxes and on the arrangements for borrowing.
On the non-financial matters, the role of the UK Supreme Court in Scottish criminal cases will be properly defined with one procedure. The system and the need for certification will be reviewed in three years in a process chaired by the Lord President.
The reservations on health professions and corporate insolvency procedures, including those in relation to registered social landlords, will be removed from the bill.
The provision on the partial suspension of acts of the Scottish Parliament that are referred to the UK Supreme Court will also be removed, and the status quo on shared executive competence to implement international obligations will be maintained. There will also be a review of the regime for marine conservation.
I turn to the costs that will be associated with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs implementing the Scottish rate of income tax. The UK Government has estimated those costs to be up to £45 million. We have argued that the UK and Scottish Governments should share the costs of setting up the Scottish rate in recognition that it is a UK Government policy and to provide an incentive to maximise value for money.
UK ministers have refused that proposal, so the costs of implementation must be met in full from the Scottish budget. That presents the Scottish Government and Parliament with a significant issue in terms of lack of accountability: HMRC will manage the implementation but will not be formally accountable to us for how it is spending our money. It is therefore vital that we find ways of sharing oversight of the project and ensure as best we can that HMRC maximises value for money while providing the best possible service to Scottish taxpayers. The Governments have therefore set up joint assurance mechanisms at senior official level, and implementation will be overseen by ministers through the Joint Exchequer Committee. The bill also now requires statutory reports from both Governments to the Parliaments on progress with implementation.
The proposal to adopt the Holtham commission methodology for the mechanism for calculating the block grant adjustment is much better than the Calman proposals that the UK Government originally supported. Under Calman, the block grant adjustment would have been calculated once—in the first year—and the proportion would have remained the same every year thereafter. Scotland would have lost out if the block grant adjustment was bigger than receipts from the Scottish rate of income tax—in other words, if UK public spending grew faster than Scottish-rate tax receipts. Therefore, the effect on the Scottish budget would have depended on movements in UK public spending, over which Scotland has no control or even influence.
As members know, we argue that, in past years, Scotland would have lost substantial amounts of money from the Calman approach. However, under the Holtham approach, the adjustment to the block grant will be recalculated each year, based on changes to the UK tax base on which the Scottish rate is levied. That means that, if Scottish rate tax receipts grow faster than the corresponding UK tax base, our budget will benefit. That is, Scotland will benefit if earnings and employment in our economy perform better than those in the rest of the UK. That is a better, more principled, arrangement and I am genuinely glad that the UK Government has adopted a different approach.
There is also a clear undertaking that both Governments should reach agreement before the package is implemented. The Scottish Government recognises clearly that it needs to seek the agreement of this Parliament as part of that process.
The Scottish Government freely admits that it would like more. Scotland can, should and will be independent. However, the Scottish National Party has never stood in the way of any legislation that will help the people who live in Scotland.
There was a time when the bill did more harm than good. It promised a financial mechanism that could have cut spending in Scotland by billions of pounds had it operated from 1999. That mechanism has now gone, and the damaging reservation provisions in the bill have also been removed, as I outlined earlier. We are therefore satisfied that the bill no longer poses a threat to devolved interests. In the Scottish Government’s judgment, the package of changes makes it possible for the Parliament to support the bill.
However, the bill could have been so much better. It could have provided real economic levers, for example by devolving corporation tax. A more competitive corporation tax rate in Scotland would boost output, investment, exports and overall employment. The UK Government is, even now, examining a lower corporation tax rate for Northern Ireland to boost its economic performance, yet there has been no action here.
The bill could have provided us with better capital borrowing powers, as recommended by both Scotland Bill Committees and the Scottish Affairs Committee, yet there has been no action on that. The management of the Crown estate in Scotland has been identified by everyone from Ian Davidson to both Scotland Bill Committees and even Tavish Scott as unsatisfactory and ripe for reform, yet there has been no action on that. Calman recommended a formal role for the Scottish Parliament in welfare, and the Welfare Reform Bill has shown the need for that. More intergovernmental dialogue was promised by the UK Government last June, yet there has been no action on that.
The purpose of our proposals was to strengthen the Parliament and improve the lot of the people of Scotland.
Following negotiations between the Governments, a number of legislative and non-legislative measures have now been agreed to improve the bill and address our concerns. It is important that Parliament knows about those, so I will list the major ones. Consistent with the principle of consent in the UK Government’s statement of funding policy, both Governments should reach agreement on implementation issues, including adjustments to the block grant, to take account of the Scottish Parliament’s new fiscal powers. Each Government should also provide assurance to its Parliament before relevant provisions of the bill are brought into force and before implementation arrangements are brought into effect.
The Governments will develop an adjustment to the Scottish block grant based on the proposals of the Holtham commission on the funding of the Welsh Assembly Government. There will be transparency for both Parliaments on implementation and a statutory duty on both Governments to report regularly to their respective Parliaments on the implementation of the financial aspects of the bill.
There will also be discussions between the Governments on devolving additional taxes and on the arrangements for borrowing.
On the non-financial matters, the role of the UK Supreme Court in Scottish criminal cases will be properly defined with one procedure. The system and the need for certification will be reviewed in three years in a process chaired by the Lord President.
The reservations on health professions and corporate insolvency procedures, including those in relation to registered social landlords, will be removed from the bill.
The provision on the partial suspension of acts of the Scottish Parliament that are referred to the UK Supreme Court will also be removed, and the status quo on shared executive competence to implement international obligations will be maintained. There will also be a review of the regime for marine conservation.
I turn to the costs that will be associated with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs implementing the Scottish rate of income tax. The UK Government has estimated those costs to be up to £45 million. We have argued that the UK and Scottish Governments should share the costs of setting up the Scottish rate in recognition that it is a UK Government policy and to provide an incentive to maximise value for money.
UK ministers have refused that proposal, so the costs of implementation must be met in full from the Scottish budget. That presents the Scottish Government and Parliament with a significant issue in terms of lack of accountability: HMRC will manage the implementation but will not be formally accountable to us for how it is spending our money. It is therefore vital that we find ways of sharing oversight of the project and ensure as best we can that HMRC maximises value for money while providing the best possible service to Scottish taxpayers. The Governments have therefore set up joint assurance mechanisms at senior official level, and implementation will be overseen by ministers through the Joint Exchequer Committee. The bill also now requires statutory reports from both Governments to the Parliaments on progress with implementation.
The proposal to adopt the Holtham commission methodology for the mechanism for calculating the block grant adjustment is much better than the Calman proposals that the UK Government originally supported. Under Calman, the block grant adjustment would have been calculated once—in the first year—and the proportion would have remained the same every year thereafter. Scotland would have lost out if the block grant adjustment was bigger than receipts from the Scottish rate of income tax—in other words, if UK public spending grew faster than Scottish-rate tax receipts. Therefore, the effect on the Scottish budget would have depended on movements in UK public spending, over which Scotland has no control or even influence.
As members know, we argue that, in past years, Scotland would have lost substantial amounts of money from the Calman approach. However, under the Holtham approach, the adjustment to the block grant will be recalculated each year, based on changes to the UK tax base on which the Scottish rate is levied. That means that, if Scottish rate tax receipts grow faster than the corresponding UK tax base, our budget will benefit. That is, Scotland will benefit if earnings and employment in our economy perform better than those in the rest of the UK. That is a better, more principled, arrangement and I am genuinely glad that the UK Government has adopted a different approach.
There is also a clear undertaking that both Governments should reach agreement before the package is implemented. The Scottish Government recognises clearly that it needs to seek the agreement of this Parliament as part of that process.
The Scottish Government freely admits that it would like more. Scotland can, should and will be independent. However, the Scottish National Party has never stood in the way of any legislation that will help the people who live in Scotland.
There was a time when the bill did more harm than good. It promised a financial mechanism that could have cut spending in Scotland by billions of pounds had it operated from 1999. That mechanism has now gone, and the damaging reservation provisions in the bill have also been removed, as I outlined earlier. We are therefore satisfied that the bill no longer poses a threat to devolved interests. In the Scottish Government’s judgment, the package of changes makes it possible for the Parliament to support the bill.
However, the bill could have been so much better. It could have provided real economic levers, for example by devolving corporation tax. A more competitive corporation tax rate in Scotland would boost output, investment, exports and overall employment. The UK Government is, even now, examining a lower corporation tax rate for Northern Ireland to boost its economic performance, yet there has been no action here.
The bill could have provided us with better capital borrowing powers, as recommended by both Scotland Bill Committees and the Scottish Affairs Committee, yet there has been no action on that. The management of the Crown estate in Scotland has been identified by everyone from Ian Davidson to both Scotland Bill Committees and even Tavish Scott as unsatisfactory and ripe for reform, yet there has been no action on that. Calman recommended a formal role for the Scottish Parliament in welfare, and the Welfare Reform Bill has shown the need for that. More intergovernmental dialogue was promised by the UK Government last June, yet there has been no action on that.
The purpose of our proposals was to strengthen the Parliament and improve the lot of the people of Scotland.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02625, in the name of Bruce Crawford, on the Scotland Bill, which is United Kingdom legislation. I invite...
The Cabinet Secretary for Parliamentary Business and Government Strategy (Bruce Crawford)
SNP
The Scottish Government is today inviting the Parliament to consent to the Scotland Bill, which was introduced into the UK Parliament on 30 November 2010. Th...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lab
Can the cabinet secretary remind us of the six proposals that the Government made after the last election and tell us how many of them have been included in ...
Bruce Crawford
SNP
Every party in the chamber has publicly said that Scotland should be granted more powers than are currently in the bill. However, we live in pretty strange t...
David McLetchie (Lothian) (Con)
Con
How many proposals?
Bruce Crawford
SNP
I have just dealt with that point. Those proposals included a role for this Parliament in commencing the finance provisions of the bill as well as the remova...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Michael Russell)
SNP
Nae point.
Bruce Crawford
SNP
Yes, there is nae point.Following negotiations between the Governments, a number of legislative and non-legislative measures have now been agreed to improve ...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
The minister did not mention alcohol duty. Is that because he is embarrassed by the fact that he did not present the proposals until after the committee had ...
Bruce Crawford
SNP
I will take no lectures from anybody who is associated with the UK Government on issues to do with alcohol. The member is following us everywhere as far as t...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in this afternoon’s debate on the Scotland Bill. I confirm that the Labour Party will support the motion at decision t...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Mr Kelly talks about more responsibility, but does he believe that the bill provides the right level of responsibility, or does he think that we should have ...
James Kelly
Lab
What struck me from our discussions in the Scotland Bill Committee on having more powers over income tax and how that would operate is that, as the SNP gets ...
Bruce Crawford
SNP
Given what he says, will the member explain how, in Stirling Council, in my constituency, the Labour Party, in conjunction with the Tories, was able to put f...
James Kelly
Lab
Make no mistake, Mr Crawford—the SNP Government is passing on £658 million of cuts to local councils. We will remind the SNP of that from now until polling d...
David McLetchie (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Like James Kelly, I commend Linda Fabiani for her convenership of the Scotland Bill Committee. I very much enjoyed my participation in it, as I enjoyed my pa...
Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP)
SNP
It is interesting that we have just heard two representatives of the anti-independence parties, but they have not said anything yet about what they would wis...
Willie Rennie
LD
I note all the things that the member has said, but I think that she fails to understand the point. We made a submission to the commission as part of a proce...
Linda Fabiani
SNP
Can I presume that it is the same with broadcasting—the Lib Dem Steel commission wanted greater accountability for that—and excise duty? In the Lib Dem submi...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
The Calman commission was established by the then Labour leader Wendy Alexander prior to the 2011 election, and the subsequent Scotland Bill that emerged fro...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Neil Findlay
Lab
Not at the moment.I state openly that I hope that the Scotland Bill will enable a move forward to genuinely progressive taxation that seeks to redistribute t...
Joan McAlpine
SNP
Will the member take an intervention now?
Neil Findlay
Lab
I will not take one now, because you are mentioned later in my speech, so you will probably want to come in then.The First Minister wanted powers over excise...
Joan McAlpine
SNP
You expressed your concern about welfare. I think that this Parliament is united—certainly Labour and the SNP are united—in agreement that the welfare change...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
I remind all members to speak through the chair.
Neil Findlay
Lab
I do not think that you are in a very strong position to argue over what you want in the Scotland Bill, since you did not want it in the first place.Of cours...
Linda Fabiani
SNP
Will the member give way?
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Neil Findlay
Lab
No, thank you.We should not be surprised by the SNP’s budget day backtrack—not just on this bill, but on everything else that it wanted to ditch. Saying one ...