Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 14 March 2012
14 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I thank the clerks for the support that they gave me as a new member of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee when I started in January, just after the Christmas break. On an issue such as the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill, with members going from a standing start, the support that we receive from parliamentary staff is important. I thank my fellow committee members for the warm welcome that they gave me. Perhaps that was because they were pleased to have me to share the burden of the bill, although I am sure that it was a wee bit more than that. There has been a steep learning curve for all of us, me included, on land registration, but we were boosted by the understanding and knowledge of those who gave oral and written evidence to the committee. As the committee’s work progressed over the past couple of months, we began to appreciate the expertise in and understanding of the issues that are out there.
One key issue, which John Wilson mentioned and which I think is the most important factor, is about ensuring that we start to complete the land register. I was amazed to find that, although it has been 30 years since the initial legislation was introduced, only 21 per cent of the landmass has been registered. If the bill does anything at all to improve the opportunities to increase the amount of land that is registered in Scotland, whether through voluntary means or some form of enticement, that would be a success in itself. However, in trying to do that, although it is important to have something in the bill, the net result is that we need to ensure that we have sufficient resources to make it happen. We have spoken about the keeper’s reserves, and we need to see where the deliberations on that take us. I hope that resources will be made available to increase the amount of land that is registered in Scotland.
I am keen to highlight a couple of things about electronic documents and the accessibility of the land register. Those are important issues for people outside the Parliament who are trying to engage with the land register and people who are trying to conclude as quickly as possible their deliberations with the legal professionals who are acting on their behalf. For example, a local group in my area wanted to find a bit of land that would be suitable for them to build a sports facility on. Although they were able to bring partners together and find information about a range of things, particularly funding, they found it difficult to engage with the land register. There are a number of websites that tell us how much houses cost. I wonder whether we might be able to get a system in place in which someone could press a button and identify the piece of land that they wanted to use, getting the information quickly online instead of having to go through the rather laborious process that people have to go through now of checking and identifying the land on Google maps. If the bill could set up an electronic system that improved the opportunities for consumers, that would be very welcome.
On section 108 and the offence provision, I was quite confused about the evidence that was provided. Most committee members were concerned about the lack of real evidence that the section would make a difference, so I appreciate the minister’s comments today about guidance being produced by the Law Society and the keeper. I look forward to seeing that.
I thank again those who have given evidence to the committee and hope that we can get a workable bill as we move forward.
14:12
One key issue, which John Wilson mentioned and which I think is the most important factor, is about ensuring that we start to complete the land register. I was amazed to find that, although it has been 30 years since the initial legislation was introduced, only 21 per cent of the landmass has been registered. If the bill does anything at all to improve the opportunities to increase the amount of land that is registered in Scotland, whether through voluntary means or some form of enticement, that would be a success in itself. However, in trying to do that, although it is important to have something in the bill, the net result is that we need to ensure that we have sufficient resources to make it happen. We have spoken about the keeper’s reserves, and we need to see where the deliberations on that take us. I hope that resources will be made available to increase the amount of land that is registered in Scotland.
I am keen to highlight a couple of things about electronic documents and the accessibility of the land register. Those are important issues for people outside the Parliament who are trying to engage with the land register and people who are trying to conclude as quickly as possible their deliberations with the legal professionals who are acting on their behalf. For example, a local group in my area wanted to find a bit of land that would be suitable for them to build a sports facility on. Although they were able to bring partners together and find information about a range of things, particularly funding, they found it difficult to engage with the land register. There are a number of websites that tell us how much houses cost. I wonder whether we might be able to get a system in place in which someone could press a button and identify the piece of land that they wanted to use, getting the information quickly online instead of having to go through the rather laborious process that people have to go through now of checking and identifying the land on Google maps. If the bill could set up an electronic system that improved the opportunities for consumers, that would be very welcome.
On section 108 and the offence provision, I was quite confused about the evidence that was provided. Most committee members were concerned about the lack of real evidence that the section would make a difference, so I appreciate the minister’s comments today about guidance being produced by the Law Society and the keeper. I look forward to seeing that.
I thank again those who have given evidence to the committee and hope that we can get a workable bill as we move forward.
14:12
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02304, in the name of Fergus Ewing, on the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill.13:34
The Minister for Energy, Enterprise and Tourism (Fergus Ewing)
SNP
I thank the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee for its thorough and collaborative scrutiny of the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. I also thank the ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I declare my interest as a member of the Law Society of Scotland.As convener of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, I mention that the committee recom...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I will consider further and respond in due course on reduced fees for voluntary registration. Does Mr Fraser agree that there is an incentive for voluntary r...
Murdo Fraser
Con
The minister has made a fair point. In his opening speech he mentioned the proposal to introduce time-and-line fees. Higher costs would potentially act as a ...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I do not want to interrupt the flow of Mr Fraser’s speech too frequently, but I ask him—as one solicitor to another—whether it is fair to say that the high c...
Murdo Fraser
Con
That is a fair point, although I am sure that when Mr Ewing was in practice he was very reasonable in the fees that he charged—as, indeed, was I.The offence ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
I associate myself with the thanks that Murdo Fraser and the minister offered to those who provided evidence to and assisted the committee. The bill is large...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
Is it the Labour Party’s position that only companies or individuals who are resident and domiciled in Scotland should be able to buy land in Scotland?
Rhoda Grant
Lab
No. If Mr MacKenzie listens to the points that I will make, he might understand where I am coming from.The land reform legislation was based on the need to k...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
It is a challenge to bring some verve and spice to the issue of land registration. The subject does not brim with pulsating excitement. Things were a lot mor...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We now move to the open debate. I remind all speakers that they have a fairly tight 10-minute time limit. Interruption. I am sorry: I meant to say four minut...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I speak as a member of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, which held a number of evidence-gathering sessions as part of its detailed examination of t...
John Park (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the clerks for the support that they gave me as a new member of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee when I started in January, just after the C...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. Although I am what Murdo Fraser has described as “a non-lawyer”—I wonder whether that is a Latin...
Stuart McMillan (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
As one of the non-lawyers on the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, it was with a sense of trepidation that I started out on my journey through scrutiny ...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
This is an interesting topic. I have witnessed huge amounts of difficulty overseas, in particular for farmers who have smallholdings. When an inheritance has...
Jean Urquhart (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
When I offered to speak in today’s debate, I was aware that I would be doing so more from a sense of how important the bill is than from a position of taking...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate on the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. As someone who is not a member of the Economy, Energy and Tou...
Paul Wheelhouse (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I should declare an interest. I worked for BiGGAR Economics when it did the piece of work for Registers of Scotland on the economic impact of its proposals. ...
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
SNP
As the convener of the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, I have an interest in the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill dovetailing w...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I strongly commend Rob Gibson for much of what he said. In addition, I thank everyone who contributed to the committee’s work, in whatever capacity.My fellow...
Annabel Goldie
Con
It is difficult in an essentially technical debate to introduce ideas and concepts without risking repetition. I prefer to comment briefly on one or two poin...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
I acknowledge that, although the bill is largely technical, most of its proposals have been welcomed and are required if we are to improve land registration....
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I have thoroughly enjoyed the debate. There have been useful contributions from all sides. If I do not reply in my short speech to some of the suggestions an...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I will carry on for a bit, if I may.Mr Harvie acknowledged that point, as did others. I can tell him that we have had some discussions on the matter and offi...
Patrick Harvie
Green
Will the minister allow his officials to have discussions with Opposition members prior to stage 2, so that we understand the limits of what the Government t...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I always do that.Why are reserves necessary? First, because the keeper cannot have access to consolidated funds; she must balance her budget. She does not ha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
You have another four minutes.
Fergus Ewing
SNP
Oh good. I thought that I needed to finish.