Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 14 March 2012
14 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I speak as a member of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, which held a number of evidence-gathering sessions as part of its detailed examination of the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. In addition to taking oral evidence, it also gathered detailed written evidence, which was received on an almost weekly basis from organisations that wanted to get their point across to the committee.
The bill aims to introduce an element of modernity and reform and to restate the law in relation to the registration of rights in the land register. The committee’s stage 1 report on the proposed legislation notes that
“the powers contained within the Bill for increasing land registration will assist in securing the desired objective of a complete Land Register.”
One of the issues of concern for the committee was whether the bill would help to provide a complete land register once enacted. We were concerned that we were not progressing quickly enough towards a complete land register in Scotland.
During the committee’s evidence-gathering sessions, it became clear that progress since the passage of the Land Registration (Scotland) Act 1979 has been painfully slow, hence our suggestion that it would be desirable to set targets—even interim ones—in the bill. The minister addressed that issue when he gave evidence to the committee, but the committee felt that it would be useful to have at least some targets in the bill that we could try to work towards. One overriding objective of the proposed legislation is to have the fastest method of completing land registration efficiently, with sufficient safeguards built in to maintain robustness.
The committee held five evidence sessions, during which the automated registration of title to land system was raised as an issue. I welcome the minister’s commitment to raise with the keeper the matter of an upgrade. Behind such mechanistic processes, there is usually a human cost that needs to be considered. I hope that the proposed legislation will go some way towards tackling that issue.
There are also issues with prescriptive claims. The committee discussed how to deal with such claims and how they should be advertised. One solution that I came up with is to use the same process as is used in planning applications, so that anyone who makes a prescriptive claim would have to notify neighbours on surrounding land, who could then intervene or comment on any acquisition that was sought through a prescriptive claim.
Section 108 concerned the Law Society of Scotland and others. It is a key principle of the bill that giving the keeper a materially false or misleading statement will be made a statutory offence. I recognise that the Solicitor General for Scotland, Lesley Thomson, and the minister believe that the measure should be enshrined in legislation so that they have the legal force to deal with serious and organised crime. I also recognise that there is a significant problem. The bill attempts to address some of the concerns that have been identified with the process, particularly in relation to organised crime, in relation to which redress has been somewhat limited.
In oral evidence to the committee, the Solicitor General highlighted the importance of creating an offence to deal with structured criminality. That evidence was reflected in the committee’s stage 1 report. I welcome the Solicitor General’s desire to discuss with the Law Society of Scotland what further guidance and advice could be provided to solicitors when the proposed legislation becomes statute.
I welcome the stage 1 debate and the broad principles in the bill. I look forward to the bill coming back to the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee. I thank all those who provided written and oral evidence. I also thank the clerks and the committee adviser, as well as my fellow committee members, who scrutinised the bill at stage 1.
14:07
The bill aims to introduce an element of modernity and reform and to restate the law in relation to the registration of rights in the land register. The committee’s stage 1 report on the proposed legislation notes that
“the powers contained within the Bill for increasing land registration will assist in securing the desired objective of a complete Land Register.”
One of the issues of concern for the committee was whether the bill would help to provide a complete land register once enacted. We were concerned that we were not progressing quickly enough towards a complete land register in Scotland.
During the committee’s evidence-gathering sessions, it became clear that progress since the passage of the Land Registration (Scotland) Act 1979 has been painfully slow, hence our suggestion that it would be desirable to set targets—even interim ones—in the bill. The minister addressed that issue when he gave evidence to the committee, but the committee felt that it would be useful to have at least some targets in the bill that we could try to work towards. One overriding objective of the proposed legislation is to have the fastest method of completing land registration efficiently, with sufficient safeguards built in to maintain robustness.
The committee held five evidence sessions, during which the automated registration of title to land system was raised as an issue. I welcome the minister’s commitment to raise with the keeper the matter of an upgrade. Behind such mechanistic processes, there is usually a human cost that needs to be considered. I hope that the proposed legislation will go some way towards tackling that issue.
There are also issues with prescriptive claims. The committee discussed how to deal with such claims and how they should be advertised. One solution that I came up with is to use the same process as is used in planning applications, so that anyone who makes a prescriptive claim would have to notify neighbours on surrounding land, who could then intervene or comment on any acquisition that was sought through a prescriptive claim.
Section 108 concerned the Law Society of Scotland and others. It is a key principle of the bill that giving the keeper a materially false or misleading statement will be made a statutory offence. I recognise that the Solicitor General for Scotland, Lesley Thomson, and the minister believe that the measure should be enshrined in legislation so that they have the legal force to deal with serious and organised crime. I also recognise that there is a significant problem. The bill attempts to address some of the concerns that have been identified with the process, particularly in relation to organised crime, in relation to which redress has been somewhat limited.
In oral evidence to the committee, the Solicitor General highlighted the importance of creating an offence to deal with structured criminality. That evidence was reflected in the committee’s stage 1 report. I welcome the Solicitor General’s desire to discuss with the Law Society of Scotland what further guidance and advice could be provided to solicitors when the proposed legislation becomes statute.
I welcome the stage 1 debate and the broad principles in the bill. I look forward to the bill coming back to the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee. I thank all those who provided written and oral evidence. I also thank the clerks and the committee adviser, as well as my fellow committee members, who scrutinised the bill at stage 1.
14:07
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02304, in the name of Fergus Ewing, on the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill.13:34
The Minister for Energy, Enterprise and Tourism (Fergus Ewing)
SNP
I thank the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee for its thorough and collaborative scrutiny of the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. I also thank the ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I declare my interest as a member of the Law Society of Scotland.As convener of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, I mention that the committee recom...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I will consider further and respond in due course on reduced fees for voluntary registration. Does Mr Fraser agree that there is an incentive for voluntary r...
Murdo Fraser
Con
The minister has made a fair point. In his opening speech he mentioned the proposal to introduce time-and-line fees. Higher costs would potentially act as a ...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I do not want to interrupt the flow of Mr Fraser’s speech too frequently, but I ask him—as one solicitor to another—whether it is fair to say that the high c...
Murdo Fraser
Con
That is a fair point, although I am sure that when Mr Ewing was in practice he was very reasonable in the fees that he charged—as, indeed, was I.The offence ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
I associate myself with the thanks that Murdo Fraser and the minister offered to those who provided evidence to and assisted the committee. The bill is large...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
Is it the Labour Party’s position that only companies or individuals who are resident and domiciled in Scotland should be able to buy land in Scotland?
Rhoda Grant
Lab
No. If Mr MacKenzie listens to the points that I will make, he might understand where I am coming from.The land reform legislation was based on the need to k...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
It is a challenge to bring some verve and spice to the issue of land registration. The subject does not brim with pulsating excitement. Things were a lot mor...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We now move to the open debate. I remind all speakers that they have a fairly tight 10-minute time limit. Interruption. I am sorry: I meant to say four minut...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I speak as a member of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, which held a number of evidence-gathering sessions as part of its detailed examination of t...
John Park (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the clerks for the support that they gave me as a new member of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee when I started in January, just after the C...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. Although I am what Murdo Fraser has described as “a non-lawyer”—I wonder whether that is a Latin...
Stuart McMillan (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
As one of the non-lawyers on the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, it was with a sense of trepidation that I started out on my journey through scrutiny ...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
This is an interesting topic. I have witnessed huge amounts of difficulty overseas, in particular for farmers who have smallholdings. When an inheritance has...
Jean Urquhart (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
When I offered to speak in today’s debate, I was aware that I would be doing so more from a sense of how important the bill is than from a position of taking...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate on the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. As someone who is not a member of the Economy, Energy and Tou...
Paul Wheelhouse (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I should declare an interest. I worked for BiGGAR Economics when it did the piece of work for Registers of Scotland on the economic impact of its proposals. ...
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
SNP
As the convener of the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, I have an interest in the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill dovetailing w...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I strongly commend Rob Gibson for much of what he said. In addition, I thank everyone who contributed to the committee’s work, in whatever capacity.My fellow...
Annabel Goldie
Con
It is difficult in an essentially technical debate to introduce ideas and concepts without risking repetition. I prefer to comment briefly on one or two poin...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
I acknowledge that, although the bill is largely technical, most of its proposals have been welcomed and are required if we are to improve land registration....
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I have thoroughly enjoyed the debate. There have been useful contributions from all sides. If I do not reply in my short speech to some of the suggestions an...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I will carry on for a bit, if I may.Mr Harvie acknowledged that point, as did others. I can tell him that we have had some discussions on the matter and offi...
Patrick Harvie
Green
Will the minister allow his officials to have discussions with Opposition members prior to stage 2, so that we understand the limits of what the Government t...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I always do that.Why are reserves necessary? First, because the keeper cannot have access to consolidated funds; she must balance her budget. She does not ha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
You have another four minutes.
Fergus Ewing
SNP
Oh good. I thought that I needed to finish.