Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 14 March 2012
14 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I thank the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee for its thorough and collaborative scrutiny of the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. I also thank the Scottish Law Commission for its excellent work in developing most of the policies that appear in the bill, and I thank those who have given oral and written evidence to the committee at stage 1.
The Land Registration (Scotland) Act 1979 introduced a modern map-based land register that provides clear information about land ownership, backed by a state guarantee to title. However, since rights on land began being registered in the land register, only 55 per cent of properties have been so registered. The bill will replace most of the 1979 act with a piece of 21st century legislation that will provide for completion of the land register and will place on a statutory footing the practices of the keeper of the registers of Scotland.
The bill also addresses legal tensions that have caused confusion and uncertainty for property owners since the introduction of the land register, by realigning registration law with general property law in Scotland.
In addition to those primary purposes, the bill has two significant secondary purposes. The first is to introduce a system of advance notices for use in conveyancing transactions, and the second is to amend the Requirements of Writing (Scotland) Act 1995 to allow electronic documents to be legally valid and to enable electronic registration of those documents.
I have followed the committee’s stage 1 deliberations on the bill and commend committee members on their diligent and thorough report. The report requests clarification of a number of matters. The committee asks for clarification of what was meant when I said in my evidence to the committee:
“there will be no keeper-induced registration of large and complex land titles in this parliamentary session”.—[Official Report, Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, 8 February 2012; c 949.]
I confirm that, if resources allow it, Registers of Scotland may use the power to register titles within research areas, which are predominately urban areas, such as flats and houses.
The committee also asks whether a fee will be payable for keeper-induced registrations. I confirm that no fees will be charged for such registrations during this parliamentary session, although the bill will allow fees to be payable for keeper-induced registration.
The use of time-and-line fees has been raised. At present, fees are charged mainly on an ad valorem basis. I confirm that we are not considering moving to time-and-line charging for the majority of registrations. However, time-and-line charging may be considered for complex registrations of high-value properties. It is under consideration in relation to services such as the keeper’s pre-registration title investigation service. I assure the Parliament and the committee that the Scottish Government will consult stakeholders before introducing a fees order, which would be subject to affirmative procedure.
The committee’s report recommends including in the bill aspirational targets for completion of the land register. I understand the importance of the aim, but do not favour that approach. On top of the extra triggers for registration that are in the bill, completion could be accelerated by keeper-induced registration and by promoting voluntary registration. The keeper and I are doing all that we can to encourage voluntary registrations. On keeper-induced registration, the keeper has shared with the committee her initial thinking on how to take the issue forward, and work to develop that is proceeding.
I will pass the committee’s comments about mapping to the keeper’s mapping working group, and I will ensure that the keeper writes to the committee with an update from that group.
I would like to reaffirm my commitment to lodge at stage 2 an amendment that will remove the requirement to prove that there has been seven years of abandonment of land before a person can become a prescriptive claimant under the bill. The committee recommends that the Scottish Government consider introducing a public process of advertising abandoned land. We feel that there are pros and cons to that suggestion. I will, therefore, consider the proposal further, in advance of stage 2.
I welcome the committee’s view that it is content for the new statutory offence in section 108 to remain in the bill. The committee has heard much evidence in relation to the offence provision. In particular, I note the Law Society of Scotland’s opposition. As part of my on-going consideration of the provision, I have written to the president of the Law Society to request further information on fraud involving solicitors. The aim of the offence provision is to disrupt serious organised crime and to criminalise individuals who knowingly use the land register to facilitate criminal behaviour. It is not the Government’s intention to criminalise honest solicitors who make genuine errors in applications for registration. The keeper and the Solicitor General have told me that they will work with the Law Society of Scotland to help to provide guidance to the legal profession.
In view of the concerns that the committee has expressed in its report, the Government will carefully consider in advance of stage 2 whether amendment to section 108 is appropriate. There has been some debate about whether one or two advance notices are required when a disposition and standard security are being granted. In those circumstances, two advance notices will be required if the lender wishes fully to protect the standard security. That is the scheme that was devised by the Scottish Law Commission and the Government is satisfied that it is simple and that it will work.
On the provisions on shared plot title sheets, it appears that there are differing views in the evidence that the committee received on the policy. The aim of the policy is to clarify who owns land and to assist conveyancing practice so that a deed has to refer to only one title number. This is a complex subject, so I will provide an in-depth answer in my written response to the committee’s report.
The committee specifically asked in its stage 1 report for clarification of certain miscellaneous matters that were raised by stakeholders. I do not propose to address those fully in my opening speech, due to the technical nature of many of those matters, but I am happy to speak about them later, if members wish it.
I move,
That the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Land Registration etc. (Scotland) Bill.
13:41
The Land Registration (Scotland) Act 1979 introduced a modern map-based land register that provides clear information about land ownership, backed by a state guarantee to title. However, since rights on land began being registered in the land register, only 55 per cent of properties have been so registered. The bill will replace most of the 1979 act with a piece of 21st century legislation that will provide for completion of the land register and will place on a statutory footing the practices of the keeper of the registers of Scotland.
The bill also addresses legal tensions that have caused confusion and uncertainty for property owners since the introduction of the land register, by realigning registration law with general property law in Scotland.
In addition to those primary purposes, the bill has two significant secondary purposes. The first is to introduce a system of advance notices for use in conveyancing transactions, and the second is to amend the Requirements of Writing (Scotland) Act 1995 to allow electronic documents to be legally valid and to enable electronic registration of those documents.
I have followed the committee’s stage 1 deliberations on the bill and commend committee members on their diligent and thorough report. The report requests clarification of a number of matters. The committee asks for clarification of what was meant when I said in my evidence to the committee:
“there will be no keeper-induced registration of large and complex land titles in this parliamentary session”.—[Official Report, Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, 8 February 2012; c 949.]
I confirm that, if resources allow it, Registers of Scotland may use the power to register titles within research areas, which are predominately urban areas, such as flats and houses.
The committee also asks whether a fee will be payable for keeper-induced registrations. I confirm that no fees will be charged for such registrations during this parliamentary session, although the bill will allow fees to be payable for keeper-induced registration.
The use of time-and-line fees has been raised. At present, fees are charged mainly on an ad valorem basis. I confirm that we are not considering moving to time-and-line charging for the majority of registrations. However, time-and-line charging may be considered for complex registrations of high-value properties. It is under consideration in relation to services such as the keeper’s pre-registration title investigation service. I assure the Parliament and the committee that the Scottish Government will consult stakeholders before introducing a fees order, which would be subject to affirmative procedure.
The committee’s report recommends including in the bill aspirational targets for completion of the land register. I understand the importance of the aim, but do not favour that approach. On top of the extra triggers for registration that are in the bill, completion could be accelerated by keeper-induced registration and by promoting voluntary registration. The keeper and I are doing all that we can to encourage voluntary registrations. On keeper-induced registration, the keeper has shared with the committee her initial thinking on how to take the issue forward, and work to develop that is proceeding.
I will pass the committee’s comments about mapping to the keeper’s mapping working group, and I will ensure that the keeper writes to the committee with an update from that group.
I would like to reaffirm my commitment to lodge at stage 2 an amendment that will remove the requirement to prove that there has been seven years of abandonment of land before a person can become a prescriptive claimant under the bill. The committee recommends that the Scottish Government consider introducing a public process of advertising abandoned land. We feel that there are pros and cons to that suggestion. I will, therefore, consider the proposal further, in advance of stage 2.
I welcome the committee’s view that it is content for the new statutory offence in section 108 to remain in the bill. The committee has heard much evidence in relation to the offence provision. In particular, I note the Law Society of Scotland’s opposition. As part of my on-going consideration of the provision, I have written to the president of the Law Society to request further information on fraud involving solicitors. The aim of the offence provision is to disrupt serious organised crime and to criminalise individuals who knowingly use the land register to facilitate criminal behaviour. It is not the Government’s intention to criminalise honest solicitors who make genuine errors in applications for registration. The keeper and the Solicitor General have told me that they will work with the Law Society of Scotland to help to provide guidance to the legal profession.
In view of the concerns that the committee has expressed in its report, the Government will carefully consider in advance of stage 2 whether amendment to section 108 is appropriate. There has been some debate about whether one or two advance notices are required when a disposition and standard security are being granted. In those circumstances, two advance notices will be required if the lender wishes fully to protect the standard security. That is the scheme that was devised by the Scottish Law Commission and the Government is satisfied that it is simple and that it will work.
On the provisions on shared plot title sheets, it appears that there are differing views in the evidence that the committee received on the policy. The aim of the policy is to clarify who owns land and to assist conveyancing practice so that a deed has to refer to only one title number. This is a complex subject, so I will provide an in-depth answer in my written response to the committee’s report.
The committee specifically asked in its stage 1 report for clarification of certain miscellaneous matters that were raised by stakeholders. I do not propose to address those fully in my opening speech, due to the technical nature of many of those matters, but I am happy to speak about them later, if members wish it.
I move,
That the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Land Registration etc. (Scotland) Bill.
13:41
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02304, in the name of Fergus Ewing, on the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill.13:34
The Minister for Energy, Enterprise and Tourism (Fergus Ewing)
SNP
I thank the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee for its thorough and collaborative scrutiny of the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. I also thank the ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I declare my interest as a member of the Law Society of Scotland.As convener of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, I mention that the committee recom...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I will consider further and respond in due course on reduced fees for voluntary registration. Does Mr Fraser agree that there is an incentive for voluntary r...
Murdo Fraser
Con
The minister has made a fair point. In his opening speech he mentioned the proposal to introduce time-and-line fees. Higher costs would potentially act as a ...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I do not want to interrupt the flow of Mr Fraser’s speech too frequently, but I ask him—as one solicitor to another—whether it is fair to say that the high c...
Murdo Fraser
Con
That is a fair point, although I am sure that when Mr Ewing was in practice he was very reasonable in the fees that he charged—as, indeed, was I.The offence ...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
I associate myself with the thanks that Murdo Fraser and the minister offered to those who provided evidence to and assisted the committee. The bill is large...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
Is it the Labour Party’s position that only companies or individuals who are resident and domiciled in Scotland should be able to buy land in Scotland?
Rhoda Grant
Lab
No. If Mr MacKenzie listens to the points that I will make, he might understand where I am coming from.The land reform legislation was based on the need to k...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
It is a challenge to bring some verve and spice to the issue of land registration. The subject does not brim with pulsating excitement. Things were a lot mor...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We now move to the open debate. I remind all speakers that they have a fairly tight 10-minute time limit. Interruption. I am sorry: I meant to say four minut...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I speak as a member of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, which held a number of evidence-gathering sessions as part of its detailed examination of t...
John Park (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the clerks for the support that they gave me as a new member of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee when I started in January, just after the C...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. Although I am what Murdo Fraser has described as “a non-lawyer”—I wonder whether that is a Latin...
Stuart McMillan (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
As one of the non-lawyers on the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, it was with a sense of trepidation that I started out on my journey through scrutiny ...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
This is an interesting topic. I have witnessed huge amounts of difficulty overseas, in particular for farmers who have smallholdings. When an inheritance has...
Jean Urquhart (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
When I offered to speak in today’s debate, I was aware that I would be doing so more from a sense of how important the bill is than from a position of taking...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate on the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill. As someone who is not a member of the Economy, Energy and Tou...
Paul Wheelhouse (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I should declare an interest. I worked for BiGGAR Economics when it did the piece of work for Registers of Scotland on the economic impact of its proposals. ...
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
SNP
As the convener of the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, I have an interest in the Land Registration etc (Scotland) Bill dovetailing w...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I strongly commend Rob Gibson for much of what he said. In addition, I thank everyone who contributed to the committee’s work, in whatever capacity.My fellow...
Annabel Goldie
Con
It is difficult in an essentially technical debate to introduce ideas and concepts without risking repetition. I prefer to comment briefly on one or two poin...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
I acknowledge that, although the bill is largely technical, most of its proposals have been welcomed and are required if we are to improve land registration....
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I have thoroughly enjoyed the debate. There have been useful contributions from all sides. If I do not reply in my short speech to some of the suggestions an...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I will carry on for a bit, if I may.Mr Harvie acknowledged that point, as did others. I can tell him that we have had some discussions on the matter and offi...
Patrick Harvie
Green
Will the minister allow his officials to have discussions with Opposition members prior to stage 2, so that we understand the limits of what the Government t...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
I always do that.Why are reserves necessary? First, because the keeper cannot have access to consolidated funds; she must balance her budget. She does not ha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
You have another four minutes.
Fergus Ewing
SNP
Oh good. I thought that I needed to finish.