Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 23 February 2012
23 Feb 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Economy and Recovery
The point is that the motion that is before us calls on us to support the Scottish Government’s “distinctive approach”. What distinctive approach? The SNP is always claiming—as Mr Swinney did again today—that plan MacB, that fantastic success, has given us a shorter, shallower recession. I point out, by the way, that it has taken us longer to get out of recession. I am just suggesting that there is no evidence for the SNP’s argument. It is simply assertion.
Professor Bell went on to make an interesting point. He said:
“The contrast in rates of unemployment between Scotland and the rest of UK is insignificant compared with the differences within Scotland itself ... the claimant count unemployment rate in Aberdeenshire was 1.5 per cent, while that in West Dunbarton was 6.7 per cent.”
In other words, we have a Scottish Government that is more interested in making unsubstantiated claims about the difference between its approach and that of the Tories in the rest of the UK, and is either unable or unwilling to tackle the gross inequality in joblessness that is within its own jurisdiction in Scotland.
Professor Bell is certainly not the only economist illuminating that gap. Last month, in evidence to the Finance Committee, the point was made by Professors Peat and Armstrong, and the Centre for Public Policy for Regions has said:
“Overall, the different approaches taken by the Scottish and UK governments thus far appear to have made little difference to the economic outcomes. The deterioration in both GDP and the labour market have been on a similar scale in both Scotland and the UK.”
In my intervention earlier, I was trying to make a point that we had just heard another example of the politics of assertion over argument. The minister was trying to claim that economic activity, employment and economic inactivity rates are better in Scotland than in the rest of the UK. However, that is not true. It is true only if we consider the 16-to-64 age group—the working age group. If we consider the rate for everyone over the age of 16—that is the age group to which the minister is referring in relation to unemployment, so it is not my selection; it is his—we see that we are not doing better than the UK but are doing worse.
The Scottish Government is asserting that it is making a difference, but the evidence does not support that at all. I suggest that the minister starts to make a case for his assertion that the Scottish Government is making a difference and starts to deliver on his words.
Professor Bell went on to make an interesting point. He said:
“The contrast in rates of unemployment between Scotland and the rest of UK is insignificant compared with the differences within Scotland itself ... the claimant count unemployment rate in Aberdeenshire was 1.5 per cent, while that in West Dunbarton was 6.7 per cent.”
In other words, we have a Scottish Government that is more interested in making unsubstantiated claims about the difference between its approach and that of the Tories in the rest of the UK, and is either unable or unwilling to tackle the gross inequality in joblessness that is within its own jurisdiction in Scotland.
Professor Bell is certainly not the only economist illuminating that gap. Last month, in evidence to the Finance Committee, the point was made by Professors Peat and Armstrong, and the Centre for Public Policy for Regions has said:
“Overall, the different approaches taken by the Scottish and UK governments thus far appear to have made little difference to the economic outcomes. The deterioration in both GDP and the labour market have been on a similar scale in both Scotland and the UK.”
In my intervention earlier, I was trying to make a point that we had just heard another example of the politics of assertion over argument. The minister was trying to claim that economic activity, employment and economic inactivity rates are better in Scotland than in the rest of the UK. However, that is not true. It is true only if we consider the 16-to-64 age group—the working age group. If we consider the rate for everyone over the age of 16—that is the age group to which the minister is referring in relation to unemployment, so it is not my selection; it is his—we see that we are not doing better than the UK but are doing worse.
The Scottish Government is asserting that it is making a difference, but the evidence does not support that at all. I suggest that the minister starts to make a case for his assertion that the Scottish Government is making a difference and starts to deliver on his words.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02084, in the name of John Swinney, on the economy and recovery. I draw it to members’ attention that the...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney)
SNP
I will set out the action that the Government is taking to ensure that Scotland’s recovery can take its course, despite the current global uncertainties. As ...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con)
Con
The cabinet secretary says that the quarter 3 figure of growth of 0.5 per cent was the same as that for the UK. What about the year-on-year figures in compar...
John Swinney
SNP
No, we did not grow at the same rate as the UK over the year. However, I would have thought that the Conservatives would welcome the point that I made. It is...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
Does the cabinet secretary agree that the country enjoys better economic activity and inactivity rates only in a defined age group? In the whole age group ab...
John Swinney
SNP
Across the measure of economic inactivity, it is a pure statistical fact that Scotland performs better than the rest of the United Kingdom does.The outlook r...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary therefore now abandon his plans to cut corporation tax?
John Swinney
SNP
The short-term priority for the Government, within the powers that are at our disposal, is to ensure that we obtain the necessary capital investment to boost...
Gavin Brown
Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney
SNP
Given the time, I had better press on.In order to boost economic confidence in Scotland, we are taking action to combat weakening consumer confidence, suppor...
John Park (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
John Swinney
SNP
I will press on.On building on our recovery, I will set out some actions that the Government intends to take to capture opportunities that will ensure sustai...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
Yesterday, we enjoyed that rarity in economic debates: unanimity among the parties across the chamber. That was on our approach to the green investment bank—...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Does that not make the point that we need more powers if we are to do something much better than the UK?
Ken Macintosh
Lab
The point is that the motion that is before us calls on us to support the Scottish Government’s “distinctive approach”. What distinctive approach? The SNP is...
John Swinney
SNP
Let me give Mr Macintosh a fact. Since 2007, unemployment has been lower in Scotland than in the rest of the UK in 38 out of the 56 months. In the 96 months ...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
Can I suggest that it demonstrates nothing of the sort and that it answers a different question? The minister’s claim is that his Government is making a dist...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I have read in detail not just the STUC’s report but the Federation of Small Businesses in Scotland’s report. Why does the member not represent a fair view o...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
That is a good question that goes exactly to the point that I am addressing. Of course the scheme is popular: that is why the SNP introduced it. It is popula...
John Swinney
SNP
What are you going to do about it?
Ken Macintosh
Lab
The minister asks what we are going to do about it. Can I suggest that the minister should listen to Labour? Perhaps he is already doing so. For example, I a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
Can we hear the member’s last 30 seconds, please?
Ken Macintosh
Lab
Following three interventions, Presiding Officer? Well, okay.We should see further interest in wage subsidies and a drive to maintain rather than reduce the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I reiterate what my colleague John Scott said: the debate is very tight for time, so no time will be given back for interventions.15:18
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con)
Con
What did we have today from the Scottish Government? We had the usual cartoonish exaggeration: everything that it has done has helped the economy and spurred...
Gavin Brown
Con
Right on cue. I knew that that was coming. I think that it was even in the script.I take issue with something that the cabinet secretary said when he critici...
John Swinney
SNP
Who is splitting hairs now?
Gavin Brown
Con
If the cabinet secretary wishes to make an intervention, I would welcome it at any point in my speech.
John Swinney
SNP
I will wait until the member makes a point of substance.
Gavin Brown
Con
Mr Swinney had 14 minutes in which to make a point of substance—and he made lots of them, apparently. I will pick him up on some of the other points that he ...