Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 15 March 2012
15 Mar 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
National Library of Scotland Bill: Stage 1
I am a proud Lanarkshire lass who was born in Motherwell, which is one of the burghs that were blessed with the gift of a Carnegie library. I spent much of my early childhood in that library—indeed, one of my earliest pre-school memories is of sitting in the children’s area of the library with the coloured glass panes at the back.
In trying to encapsulate why the bill is so important, I will quote from Andrew Carnegie, who said:
“the best means of benefiting the community is to place within its reach the ladders upon which the aspiring can rise—free libraries, parks, and means of recreation, by which men are helped in body and mind; works of art, certain to give pleasure and improve the public taste; and public institutions of various kinds, which will improve the general condition of the people; in this manner returning their surplus wealth to the mass of their fellows in the forms best calculated to do them lasting good.”
That quote encompasses many of the issues that have been discussed in relation to the bill. For example, it mentions free libraries. The issue of pricing has been discussed, as has the important principle of maintaining free access to the collections, with charging being used in exceptional circumstances for added value. The quote also mentions public institutions. The National Library of Scotland is one of Scotland’s precious public institutions that should be preserved.
Carnegie says that it is important that institutions, whether they are galleries, museums or, as we are discussing today, libraries, deliver the “forms best calculated” to do people good. That encompasses much of what the National Library has done in moving forward and embracing 21st century technology through the delivery of its website. However, that is happening in a vacuum, as the library’s governance arrangements do not give it comfort in relation to the work that it is doing so well.
In this year of creative Scotland, it is right and proper that the Scottish Government should seek to bring the governance of the National Library, which was established in the 1920s, into the 21st century and up to an appropriate and measured level that will allow it to function in this technological era and meet the demands of this century. The changes will facilitate the National Library’s work to meet its ambition to expand and to achieve its goals on improving its service to Scotland and the world.
As the Education and Culture Committee convener said, it is widely accepted that the current board of 32 representatives is too large and unwieldy. The board is not comparable with boards of other organisations, as the cabinet secretary set out in evidence at the committee meeting of 21 February. Ms Hyslop specifically mentioned National Museums Scotland, the National Galleries of Scotland and Creative Scotland. The current National Library board includes the First Minister—I hope that he will not be too disappointed if he loses his job at the end of the bill process.
The bill was introduced following rigorous consultation that ran from March to June 2010. There is broad consensus on the proposals, which is reflected in the committee’s unanimous support for the general principles of the bill. We should not forget that the National Library is one of Europe’s major research and reference libraries. It offers world-class collections and a range of modern library services, exhibitions and resources. It plays a vital role in bringing Scotland’s history and culture to life for not just Scottish but international audiences. What better resource could they have than the National Library?
The library reaches out to the Scottish diaspora by supporting genealogy projects and investigations. It stores plays and literature that resonate throughout Scotland. In a current project on the most important Scottish plays of the past 20 years, students and pupils from all over Scotland can access “The Cheviot, the Stag and the Black, Black Oil”, the uncompromising and thrilling “Black Watch” and “The Steamie”, which I note is to be revived at the Citizens theatre later this year—I will certainly be there to see that. The resources are all in one place and they are accessible through the National Library’s doors or through its website. That is a fantastic opportunity for teachers who are developing curriculum for excellence work streams, and for pupils.
The committee convener described the committee’s concerns about ministerial direction in the areas of promoting collaboration between libraries and information services and promoting the diversity of the people who access the collections. However, we must remember that the way in which we deliver library services across the nation has changed and is changing. They were once the domain of local government, but many library services and functions are now delivered—or are planned to be delivered—through trusts. That fundamentally changes the relationship between the National Library and the front-line delivery of what we might call traditional library services in our towns and cities. Although local authorities still have a statutory duty to secure the provision of adequate library facilities for all persons in their areas, the trusts are now an additional step, and an additional complication, in that relationship.
I thank the National Library board for the fantastic opportunity that it gave the committee to tour the library, for the knowledge that it imparted about its collections and especially for the information about the wonderful plans to create a home for the film archive at Glasgow’s Kelvin hall, which will be a great advantage for the city.
15:36
In trying to encapsulate why the bill is so important, I will quote from Andrew Carnegie, who said:
“the best means of benefiting the community is to place within its reach the ladders upon which the aspiring can rise—free libraries, parks, and means of recreation, by which men are helped in body and mind; works of art, certain to give pleasure and improve the public taste; and public institutions of various kinds, which will improve the general condition of the people; in this manner returning their surplus wealth to the mass of their fellows in the forms best calculated to do them lasting good.”
That quote encompasses many of the issues that have been discussed in relation to the bill. For example, it mentions free libraries. The issue of pricing has been discussed, as has the important principle of maintaining free access to the collections, with charging being used in exceptional circumstances for added value. The quote also mentions public institutions. The National Library of Scotland is one of Scotland’s precious public institutions that should be preserved.
Carnegie says that it is important that institutions, whether they are galleries, museums or, as we are discussing today, libraries, deliver the “forms best calculated” to do people good. That encompasses much of what the National Library has done in moving forward and embracing 21st century technology through the delivery of its website. However, that is happening in a vacuum, as the library’s governance arrangements do not give it comfort in relation to the work that it is doing so well.
In this year of creative Scotland, it is right and proper that the Scottish Government should seek to bring the governance of the National Library, which was established in the 1920s, into the 21st century and up to an appropriate and measured level that will allow it to function in this technological era and meet the demands of this century. The changes will facilitate the National Library’s work to meet its ambition to expand and to achieve its goals on improving its service to Scotland and the world.
As the Education and Culture Committee convener said, it is widely accepted that the current board of 32 representatives is too large and unwieldy. The board is not comparable with boards of other organisations, as the cabinet secretary set out in evidence at the committee meeting of 21 February. Ms Hyslop specifically mentioned National Museums Scotland, the National Galleries of Scotland and Creative Scotland. The current National Library board includes the First Minister—I hope that he will not be too disappointed if he loses his job at the end of the bill process.
The bill was introduced following rigorous consultation that ran from March to June 2010. There is broad consensus on the proposals, which is reflected in the committee’s unanimous support for the general principles of the bill. We should not forget that the National Library is one of Europe’s major research and reference libraries. It offers world-class collections and a range of modern library services, exhibitions and resources. It plays a vital role in bringing Scotland’s history and culture to life for not just Scottish but international audiences. What better resource could they have than the National Library?
The library reaches out to the Scottish diaspora by supporting genealogy projects and investigations. It stores plays and literature that resonate throughout Scotland. In a current project on the most important Scottish plays of the past 20 years, students and pupils from all over Scotland can access “The Cheviot, the Stag and the Black, Black Oil”, the uncompromising and thrilling “Black Watch” and “The Steamie”, which I note is to be revived at the Citizens theatre later this year—I will certainly be there to see that. The resources are all in one place and they are accessible through the National Library’s doors or through its website. That is a fantastic opportunity for teachers who are developing curriculum for excellence work streams, and for pupils.
The committee convener described the committee’s concerns about ministerial direction in the areas of promoting collaboration between libraries and information services and promoting the diversity of the people who access the collections. However, we must remember that the way in which we deliver library services across the nation has changed and is changing. They were once the domain of local government, but many library services and functions are now delivered—or are planned to be delivered—through trusts. That fundamentally changes the relationship between the National Library and the front-line delivery of what we might call traditional library services in our towns and cities. Although local authorities still have a statutory duty to secure the provision of adequate library facilities for all persons in their areas, the trusts are now an additional step, and an additional complication, in that relationship.
I thank the National Library board for the fantastic opportunity that it gave the committee to tour the library, for the knowledge that it imparted about its collections and especially for the information about the wonderful plans to create a home for the film archive at Glasgow’s Kelvin hall, which will be a great advantage for the city.
15:36
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02332, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on the National Library of Scotland Bill.14:55
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
I am pleased to open the debate on the general principles of the National Library of Scotland Bill. I thank the people who gave evidence and I thank the conv...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
On behalf of the Education and Culture Committee, I make clear from the outset our unanimous support for the general principles of the National Library of Sc...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I was going to whisper at the start of my speech, but that would have been a cheap and obvious libraries joke, and I would never indulge in such a thing.It i...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
In my opening remarks, I indicated that I would be willing to move the bottom end from seven up to nine. The range of board membership will be very similar t...
Neil Findlay
Lab
That is helpful.Reform is also about meeting challenges and embracing wider societal and technological change, and it is clear that the NLS has been proactiv...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
With regard to a number of points that Neil Findlay has raised, it is important to look again at the functions of the NLS. If it did anything to jeopardise a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
You must come to a close.
Neil Findlay
Lab
Parts of the bill are to be welcomed, but others raise questions about the role of libraries in general and the specific nature of the NLS. I raise those iss...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I apologise on behalf of my colleague Annabel Goldie, who is, sadly, not well today, and thank my colleague Alex Johnstone, who has come into the hot seat at...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I remind the member that for the Public Service Reform (Scotland) Bill the Conservatives lodged an amendment that would have given ministers greater power to...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
You are in your last minute, Ms Smith.
Liz Smith
Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer.I accept what the cabinet secretary said. Others were also a bit concerned about the issue. Ministerial power should be about be...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I am a proud Lanarkshire lass who was born in Motherwell, which is one of the burghs that were blessed with the gift of a Carnegie library. I spent much of m...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
The National Library of Scotland is an extremely important resource for the people of Scotland, so any changes to its structure and operating procedures must...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I will come back to the issue of charitable status in my closing remarks, but I ask the member to acknowledge that some of the comments that he referred to w...
Mark Griffin
Lab
I take that on board, and I appreciate that OSCR has confirmed that the power of direction would not impede the library having charitable status.However, the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I am glad to hear it. I need to ask you to finish.
Mark Griffin
Lab
That issue should be at the forefront of any changes to the library, and I hope that the cabinet secretary and the new board will give it due consideration.1...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I begin by making two declarations of interest: as many members know, I am a member of the Chartered Institute of Library and Information Professionals; and,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We are slightly tight for time, so I ask members to stick to their six minutes, please, if they can.15:49
Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
As I worked in libraries for many years, I start by putting on record my appreciation for the good work of libraries across Scotland and for the National Lib...
Marco Biagi (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
SNP
I declare an interest, which has already been alluded to. As the MSP for Edinburgh Central, I am one of the ex officio members of the board of the National L...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
I congratulate the cabinet secretary on the tone and content of her speech, much of which anticipated comments that I was going to make, and I welcome the an...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Little did I think when I got up this morning that I would find myself speaking in a debate on the National Library of Scotland. Nevertheless, to my surprise...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Can you come to a conclusion, please?
Alex Johnstone
Con
Indeed. Much more could be said on the subject, but given my lack of expertise it would make good sense for me to thank the cabinet secretary for her concess...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Given the lack of time, I am grateful to you.16:13
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Lab
This has been a consensual debate, which has reflected the consensual nature of the committee’s discussions. I welcome Alex Johnstone to the world of culture...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I thank the members who have spoken in the debate, and I would say that Alex Johnstone is living testament to the fact that libraries broaden the mind. I am ...