Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 16 May 2012
16 May 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
National Library of Scotland Bill
In this era of huge change in information technology, with digital books, online resources, web-based learning, audio books and digital film, the role of modern libraries is rapidly changing. I apologise to any librarians among us, but the genteel and somewhat staid image is a thing of the past. Libraries are now vibrant hubs providing a range of services.
In my local authority area, we have developed a model of service provision in which the library and library staff are key to local service delivery. That partnership approach brings together health, police, sporting, council, advice and library services under one roof, increasing the skills of the staff and providing one contact point for all public services. The library hosts storytelling sessions, computer classes, genealogy courses, homework clubs and much more, as well as hosting local resources in book and online formats.
As libraries change, the arrangements needed to manage and govern them must also change. The bill recognises that. The National Library of Scotland is an important public resource. It is obvious, when we walk through the door, that past and present trustees have carried out their duties well and in the best spirit of public service. It has been well managed and developed, hosting not only extensive book and paper collections but digital and film archives, websites and other new media materials. That area of its work is one that can and will develop further over time.
The Education and Culture Committee’s visit to the National Library was an interesting and rewarding experience. We could sense the unique atmosphere of the place and the pride that the trustees and employees have in it. It is an example of a public service that our taxes pay for—a public service that could never be delivered by the market and one that we have to support, protect and adequately fund.
Labour accepts that the governance of the National Library is in need of reform. We accept the insertion of the technical amendments proposed by the cabinet secretary and the insertion of the Gaelic name for legal, contractual reasons. We also accept that a governing body of 32—including, among others, Professor Anderson OBE MA PhD FBA FRSE, the Lord President of the Court of Session, the Lord Advocate, the First Minister, the dean of the Faculty of Advocates, the minister of the high kirk of St Giles in Edinburgh, the Crown Agent, the Lord Provosts of Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh and Glasgow, and Marco Biagi—requires some reform, as it is rather unwieldy.
We welcome section 2 of the bill, which clarifies the functions of the National Library and makes it clear that the library is a national reference and research library and a resource for Scotland’s research community. We welcome also that section 2 puts in statute that collections must be accessible to the public. That is the main function of any public library.
We welcome sections 3 and 4, which cover acquisition, disposal, borrowing and lending, and sections 5 and 6, which relate to legal deposits and the role of the Faculty of Advocates. Those sections have made progress without any major contention, as has section 7 on grants and loans.
On the other sections of the bill, largely relating to technicalities, we have no major concerns. The cabinet secretary has generally listened to the views expressed about the size of board and the need to reflect diversity in its appointments. That is welcome. Overall, the bill has gone through its parliamentary process fairly easily and without any great division. I put on record our thanks to the committee convener and the clerks, who have ably assisted us.
We listened to the debate about section 8, on the ministerial power of direction, at stage 1, in the committee evidence sessions, and at stage 2. We were willing to give the cabinet secretary more time to come back with further changes and we regret that that has not happened. The minister accepted that a ministerial power of direction has never been applied to cultural bodies. When probed on that by Liam McArthur and others, the minister could not come up with any concrete examples of when a ministerial power of direction could be used. She also accepted that curatorial independence should not be compromised. It must be asked, therefore, why we would want to include a power that no one has ever used and for which the minister responsible sees no discernible use. There is undoubtedly a trend of centralisation in this Government, particularly in the way in which it deals with education and local government. Section 8 would appear to be another—albeit small—step in that direction.
The bill is to be welcomed. It puts the governance of our National Library on a sound footing. Parties throughout the Parliament have actively co-operated on the bill and worked to improve it. I hope that, collectively, we have developed a valued national institution, making it more able to meet the demands of a modern service environment. Scottish Labour will support the bill when it comes to the vote tonight.
16:20
In my local authority area, we have developed a model of service provision in which the library and library staff are key to local service delivery. That partnership approach brings together health, police, sporting, council, advice and library services under one roof, increasing the skills of the staff and providing one contact point for all public services. The library hosts storytelling sessions, computer classes, genealogy courses, homework clubs and much more, as well as hosting local resources in book and online formats.
As libraries change, the arrangements needed to manage and govern them must also change. The bill recognises that. The National Library of Scotland is an important public resource. It is obvious, when we walk through the door, that past and present trustees have carried out their duties well and in the best spirit of public service. It has been well managed and developed, hosting not only extensive book and paper collections but digital and film archives, websites and other new media materials. That area of its work is one that can and will develop further over time.
The Education and Culture Committee’s visit to the National Library was an interesting and rewarding experience. We could sense the unique atmosphere of the place and the pride that the trustees and employees have in it. It is an example of a public service that our taxes pay for—a public service that could never be delivered by the market and one that we have to support, protect and adequately fund.
Labour accepts that the governance of the National Library is in need of reform. We accept the insertion of the technical amendments proposed by the cabinet secretary and the insertion of the Gaelic name for legal, contractual reasons. We also accept that a governing body of 32—including, among others, Professor Anderson OBE MA PhD FBA FRSE, the Lord President of the Court of Session, the Lord Advocate, the First Minister, the dean of the Faculty of Advocates, the minister of the high kirk of St Giles in Edinburgh, the Crown Agent, the Lord Provosts of Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh and Glasgow, and Marco Biagi—requires some reform, as it is rather unwieldy.
We welcome section 2 of the bill, which clarifies the functions of the National Library and makes it clear that the library is a national reference and research library and a resource for Scotland’s research community. We welcome also that section 2 puts in statute that collections must be accessible to the public. That is the main function of any public library.
We welcome sections 3 and 4, which cover acquisition, disposal, borrowing and lending, and sections 5 and 6, which relate to legal deposits and the role of the Faculty of Advocates. Those sections have made progress without any major contention, as has section 7 on grants and loans.
On the other sections of the bill, largely relating to technicalities, we have no major concerns. The cabinet secretary has generally listened to the views expressed about the size of board and the need to reflect diversity in its appointments. That is welcome. Overall, the bill has gone through its parliamentary process fairly easily and without any great division. I put on record our thanks to the committee convener and the clerks, who have ably assisted us.
We listened to the debate about section 8, on the ministerial power of direction, at stage 1, in the committee evidence sessions, and at stage 2. We were willing to give the cabinet secretary more time to come back with further changes and we regret that that has not happened. The minister accepted that a ministerial power of direction has never been applied to cultural bodies. When probed on that by Liam McArthur and others, the minister could not come up with any concrete examples of when a ministerial power of direction could be used. She also accepted that curatorial independence should not be compromised. It must be asked, therefore, why we would want to include a power that no one has ever used and for which the minister responsible sees no discernible use. There is undoubtedly a trend of centralisation in this Government, particularly in the way in which it deals with education and local government. Section 8 would appear to be another—albeit small—step in that direction.
The bill is to be welcomed. It puts the governance of our National Library on a sound footing. Parties throughout the Parliament have actively co-operated on the bill and worked to improve it. I hope that, collectively, we have developed a valued national institution, making it more able to meet the demands of a modern service environment. Scottish Labour will support the bill when it comes to the vote tonight.
16:20
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02878, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on the National Library of Scotland Bill.16:05
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
I thank members of the Education and Culture Committee for their scrutiny of the National Library of Scotland Bill. Throughout the process, members have prov...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
I call Neil Findlay. You have up to seven minutes. Any time that you can save will be gratefully received. 16:15
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
In this era of huge change in information technology, with digital books, online resources, web-based learning, audio books and digital film, the role of mod...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I add my thanks to those of Neil Findlay to Stewart Maxwell and the clerks. Stewart Maxwell has convened the committee with his normal sense of humour, and w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We now move to the open debate. I regret to tell members that we are short of time, so if they can confine themselves to three-minute speeches, it would be m...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I thank members for their kind comments about my convenership of the Education and Culture Committee throughout the bill’s passage. I thank in particular the...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Over the past couple of centuries, libraries have evolved to become important institutions at the heart of communities across Scotland and the United Kingdom...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
The bill that is being passed today marks a new era for the National Library of Scotland, bringing its governance into the 21st century and freeing it to con...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
When I read the bill as introduced, I had genuine doubt as to the status in law of the proposed new entity. The existing governance was clear: there was a st...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the Government’s acceptance of an increase in the minimum board size, on which I commented at stage 1.I do not understand the positions of the othe...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
I endorse Fiona McLeod’s concluding comments.We have finally managed to get Marco Biagi off the NLS board in order that he can spend more time with his famil...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I offer my congratulations to Orkney library and archive, too.16:44
Liz Smith
Con
The debate has been largely consensual, out of a need to ensure that we maintain and enhance one of Scotland’s great national treasures for exactly the reaso...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Lab
Scottish Labour, too, welcomes the bill and recognises that reform of the structures that support our National Library is necessary. The fact that the existi...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I welcome the tone of the debate and the genuine respect that members across the chamber have expressed for the work of the National Library of Scotland.In r...
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
There is far too much noise in the chamber. I ask members to settle down.
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
When I met other culture ministers in Brussels last week, I heard some fascinating insights from Professor Nigel Shadbolt of the University of Southampton ab...