Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 16 March 2011
16 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Public Records (Scotland) Bill
I am pleased to speak in the stage 3 debate on the Public Records (Scotland) Bill. Although there was strong support for the bill and the changes that it set out to achieve, concerns were raised in the stage 1 debate, particularly around the capacity of the third sector to fulfil the bill’s requirements and third sector organisations’ relationships as contractors with public authorities. I am pleased that we reached consensus and now have a better understanding of the issues than we had at stage 2. That is down to the constructive way in which the Government and members addressed the issues that were raised during stage 1.
The minister and members lodged a number of successful amendments at stage 2 that shifted the bill’s tone so that the relationship between the keeper of the records, public authorities and the third sector became one of agreement rather than instruction and direction. Although the changes do not alter the power of the keeper, who still has the final approval of any RMP, the bill emphasises agreement and focus on best practice, while allowing flexibility for all partners to achieve a working solution that best fits the service that they are focused on delivering.
At stage 2, we also addressed concerns about the relevance of stored information and requests, primarily from the third sector, for the bill to be clearer on the issue of risk. The committee received evidence that the bill could overburden some organisations, which felt that there was not sufficient distinction between relevant information and extraneous or incidental information. Although much of that will come down to judgment, the sector is looking for some direction, so the minister’s attempt to address the issue of risk is to be welcomed. The bill makes it clear that an authority’s RMP may make different provision for different kinds of public records and that, in doing so, it may take account of the different levels of risk in the management of different kinds of records. Although that will still come down to the authority’s own assessment of the level of risk, the bill should provide assurance for contractors that the issue has been recognised and that efforts will be made to keep information relevant and appropriate. Again, the partnership and agreement aspect of the bill is important in that respect, as in many cases the contractors will have a good understanding of the records that are relevant to their service and service users.
The minister acknowledged that there are concerns around the voluntary sector’s different contractual arrangements with different public bodies, which could lead to multiple contracts. The bill always proposed common records management plans, but the greater flexibility and responsiveness that were added at stage 2 will, I hope, respond to the voluntary sector’s concerns and provide local authorities with the powers that they require.
We will pass the bill today, but the next stage—guidance and practical implementation—will be crucial to the achievement of the outcomes that we all want to see. Issues such as the definition of a public record, what a model records management plan will look like and how risk is determined and balanced will continue to challenge all partners until they get it right and operate a records management system in which we can have confidence.
Although it is a short piece of legislation, the Public Records (Scotland) Bill is hugely significant. It delivers a framework for transparent, efficient and relevant record keeping and it is intended to ensure confidence in the keeping of information. It establishes a clear expectation of how public records should be managed, recognising their significance in personal situations as well as in public and historical contexts. Although the bill is in many ways a technical piece of legislation that is more about managing information and relationships between organisations, its true intention is to deliver a public records system in which people can have confidence and to ensure that we protect the rights of individuals to access information that is hugely significant to their lives.
The minister and members lodged a number of successful amendments at stage 2 that shifted the bill’s tone so that the relationship between the keeper of the records, public authorities and the third sector became one of agreement rather than instruction and direction. Although the changes do not alter the power of the keeper, who still has the final approval of any RMP, the bill emphasises agreement and focus on best practice, while allowing flexibility for all partners to achieve a working solution that best fits the service that they are focused on delivering.
At stage 2, we also addressed concerns about the relevance of stored information and requests, primarily from the third sector, for the bill to be clearer on the issue of risk. The committee received evidence that the bill could overburden some organisations, which felt that there was not sufficient distinction between relevant information and extraneous or incidental information. Although much of that will come down to judgment, the sector is looking for some direction, so the minister’s attempt to address the issue of risk is to be welcomed. The bill makes it clear that an authority’s RMP may make different provision for different kinds of public records and that, in doing so, it may take account of the different levels of risk in the management of different kinds of records. Although that will still come down to the authority’s own assessment of the level of risk, the bill should provide assurance for contractors that the issue has been recognised and that efforts will be made to keep information relevant and appropriate. Again, the partnership and agreement aspect of the bill is important in that respect, as in many cases the contractors will have a good understanding of the records that are relevant to their service and service users.
The minister acknowledged that there are concerns around the voluntary sector’s different contractual arrangements with different public bodies, which could lead to multiple contracts. The bill always proposed common records management plans, but the greater flexibility and responsiveness that were added at stage 2 will, I hope, respond to the voluntary sector’s concerns and provide local authorities with the powers that they require.
We will pass the bill today, but the next stage—guidance and practical implementation—will be crucial to the achievement of the outcomes that we all want to see. Issues such as the definition of a public record, what a model records management plan will look like and how risk is determined and balanced will continue to challenge all partners until they get it right and operate a records management system in which we can have confidence.
Although it is a short piece of legislation, the Public Records (Scotland) Bill is hugely significant. It delivers a framework for transparent, efficient and relevant record keeping and it is intended to ensure confidence in the keeping of information. It establishes a clear expectation of how public records should be managed, recognising their significance in personal situations as well as in public and historical contexts. Although the bill is in many ways a technical piece of legislation that is more about managing information and relationships between organisations, its true intention is to deliver a public records system in which people can have confidence and to ensure that we protect the rights of individuals to access information that is hugely significant to their lives.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-8129, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on the Public Records (Scotland) Bill.11:32
The Minister for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
It gives me great pleasure to open the stage 3 debate on the Public Records (Scotland) Bill and to invite members to agree to pass the bill. I thank members ...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
It might have taken all of four years, but with less than a week to go before dissolution I am pleased to conclude the Education, Lifelong Learning and Cultu...
Elizabeth Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
To have taken part in this legislative process has been an interesting and enlightening experience, even if the passing of the Public Records (Scotland) Bill...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD)
LD
I add my thanks to those already expressed to the clerks to the Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee for their assistance during the passage of...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
SNP
I am delighted to join this morning’s love-in—sorry, debate. I am glad to see so much consensus. The bill shows what can happen when everyone works together ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to speak in the stage 3 debate on the Public Records (Scotland) Bill. Although there was strong support for the bill and the changes that it set...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I now move to the winding-up speeches.11:58
Hugh O’Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD)
LD
This will perhaps be an easier task than is often the case with winding-up speeches. Many members who are not in the chamber have missed a trick in relation ...
Kenneth Gibson
SNP
It is cheaper than buying a lottery ticket.
Hugh O’Donnell
LD
Thank you, Mr Gibson.It is apparent from such programmes that there are inconsistencies in how local authorities and other public bodies keep records. The Pu...
Elizabeth Smith
Con
If I have unwittingly hit the record for the Opposition member who got the Government to accept the largest number of amendments to the Public Records (Scotl...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab)
Lab
All credit to Elizabeth Smith for breaking all those records—and for getting me to my feet earlier than I had imagined.The Public Records (Scotland) Bill is ...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I thank members for an informed, interesting and constructive debate. The debate demonstrates the extent to which members agree on the importance of and good...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Before we move on to the next item of business, I remind all members in the chamber and those who are watching and listening in their offices that the extrao...