Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 16 March 2011
16 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Public Records (Scotland) Bill
I am delighted to join this morning’s love-in—sorry, debate. I am glad to see so much consensus. The bill shows what can happen when everyone works together towards a common aim.
As has been said, the bill’s stimulus was the Shaw report in 2007, which examined child abuse in residential and children’s homes from 1950 to 1995. Tom Shaw concluded that difficulties for former residents of such homes in tracing records for identity, family or medical reasons were due to poor record keeping in the public sector. To ensure that future generations are not affected in that way, new legislation is needed to encompass fully all public records. The bill is of course that new legislation.
Mr Shaw told the Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee that the bill would end
“a range of weaknesses, gaps and inconsistencies”.
He also said that record keeping needed to be viewed as
“a proper way of recording the life experience and circumstances of an individual”
rather than “a bureaucratic chore” or “a storage problem.”
Mr Shaw said that his historical abuse systemic review found that record keeping was unsatisfactory in more than half the public authorities that were surveyed. He told us how one of his researchers had visited several archives and stores where records were held and described what she found:
“it sounds Dickensian—dusty storerooms where cardboard boxes that appeared not to have been opened for a long time sat. Whenever people were asked what was in the boxes, the answer was in effect, ‘We don’t know—would you like to have a look?’ ... In that way, existing practice has failed ... My ... concern is that the longer it takes to”
put right,
“the more records will be lost and the more people who never access what is held on them will pass through the system.”—[Official Report, Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee, 19 January 2011; c 4543, 4546-7.]
In many cases, records are simply non-existent.
The issue is about identity, as other members have said. Many unfortunate Scots have slipped through the proverbial cracks because of inadequate record keeping for too long and have grown up without knowledge of their youth, family history or who they really are. Scotland has a moral obligation to manage the populace’s personal records successfully. Moreover, the bill’s primary aim is simply to improve public record keeping. The race to keep records has—unfortunately—lagged behind technological developments and population growth.
The bill covers the management of records once they exist. Decisions on how they should be created will be left to the keeper of the records of Scotland and the authorities. Organisations with largely successful record-keeping practices will not be affected and will be able to continue good practice, whereas those that have obviously poor record keeping will feel the greatest impact of the bill and will be required to make a positive change.
In relation to the allegations about Kerelaw school, the absence of effective record keeping was undoubtedly a key factor. No longer will files be lost or hard to locate because of neglectful minds and careless storage of important documents.
The bill is about better handling of records and not about creating new records. The bill is necessary to ensure consistency across public authorities, whose records management plans will be approved by the keeper.
Children who grow up in care have often been unable to find any record of their childhood—not even a photograph of them or their family. We owe to those who are in care and to future generations the assurance that records will now be properly kept.
11:54
As has been said, the bill’s stimulus was the Shaw report in 2007, which examined child abuse in residential and children’s homes from 1950 to 1995. Tom Shaw concluded that difficulties for former residents of such homes in tracing records for identity, family or medical reasons were due to poor record keeping in the public sector. To ensure that future generations are not affected in that way, new legislation is needed to encompass fully all public records. The bill is of course that new legislation.
Mr Shaw told the Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee that the bill would end
“a range of weaknesses, gaps and inconsistencies”.
He also said that record keeping needed to be viewed as
“a proper way of recording the life experience and circumstances of an individual”
rather than “a bureaucratic chore” or “a storage problem.”
Mr Shaw said that his historical abuse systemic review found that record keeping was unsatisfactory in more than half the public authorities that were surveyed. He told us how one of his researchers had visited several archives and stores where records were held and described what she found:
“it sounds Dickensian—dusty storerooms where cardboard boxes that appeared not to have been opened for a long time sat. Whenever people were asked what was in the boxes, the answer was in effect, ‘We don’t know—would you like to have a look?’ ... In that way, existing practice has failed ... My ... concern is that the longer it takes to”
put right,
“the more records will be lost and the more people who never access what is held on them will pass through the system.”—[Official Report, Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee, 19 January 2011; c 4543, 4546-7.]
In many cases, records are simply non-existent.
The issue is about identity, as other members have said. Many unfortunate Scots have slipped through the proverbial cracks because of inadequate record keeping for too long and have grown up without knowledge of their youth, family history or who they really are. Scotland has a moral obligation to manage the populace’s personal records successfully. Moreover, the bill’s primary aim is simply to improve public record keeping. The race to keep records has—unfortunately—lagged behind technological developments and population growth.
The bill covers the management of records once they exist. Decisions on how they should be created will be left to the keeper of the records of Scotland and the authorities. Organisations with largely successful record-keeping practices will not be affected and will be able to continue good practice, whereas those that have obviously poor record keeping will feel the greatest impact of the bill and will be required to make a positive change.
In relation to the allegations about Kerelaw school, the absence of effective record keeping was undoubtedly a key factor. No longer will files be lost or hard to locate because of neglectful minds and careless storage of important documents.
The bill is about better handling of records and not about creating new records. The bill is necessary to ensure consistency across public authorities, whose records management plans will be approved by the keeper.
Children who grow up in care have often been unable to find any record of their childhood—not even a photograph of them or their family. We owe to those who are in care and to future generations the assurance that records will now be properly kept.
11:54
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-8129, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on the Public Records (Scotland) Bill.11:32
The Minister for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
It gives me great pleasure to open the stage 3 debate on the Public Records (Scotland) Bill and to invite members to agree to pass the bill. I thank members ...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
It might have taken all of four years, but with less than a week to go before dissolution I am pleased to conclude the Education, Lifelong Learning and Cultu...
Elizabeth Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
To have taken part in this legislative process has been an interesting and enlightening experience, even if the passing of the Public Records (Scotland) Bill...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD)
LD
I add my thanks to those already expressed to the clerks to the Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee for their assistance during the passage of...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
SNP
I am delighted to join this morning’s love-in—sorry, debate. I am glad to see so much consensus. The bill shows what can happen when everyone works together ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to speak in the stage 3 debate on the Public Records (Scotland) Bill. Although there was strong support for the bill and the changes that it set...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I now move to the winding-up speeches.11:58
Hugh O’Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD)
LD
This will perhaps be an easier task than is often the case with winding-up speeches. Many members who are not in the chamber have missed a trick in relation ...
Kenneth Gibson
SNP
It is cheaper than buying a lottery ticket.
Hugh O’Donnell
LD
Thank you, Mr Gibson.It is apparent from such programmes that there are inconsistencies in how local authorities and other public bodies keep records. The Pu...
Elizabeth Smith
Con
If I have unwittingly hit the record for the Opposition member who got the Government to accept the largest number of amendments to the Public Records (Scotl...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab)
Lab
All credit to Elizabeth Smith for breaking all those records—and for getting me to my feet earlier than I had imagined.The Public Records (Scotland) Bill is ...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I thank members for an informed, interesting and constructive debate. The debate demonstrates the extent to which members agree on the importance of and good...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Before we move on to the next item of business, I remind all members in the chamber and those who are watching and listening in their offices that the extrao...