Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 17 November 2011
17 Nov 2011 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Public Sector
I will make some progress, if the member does not mind.
As recently as 2 November, the UK coalition Government placed a new offer on the table of an 8 per cent increase in the accrual rate, and it is committed to continue working constructively with unions for a settlement.
Having read the Labour amendment, I think that it is important to set out the facts. Most public sector workers will see no reduction in the pension that they receive on retirement, with many low and middle-income earners receiving a larger pension income on retirement. Any worker within 10 years of retirement will see no change to the age at which they can retire and no change to the amount of pension that they will receive when they retire.
After all the reforms, people in the public sector will still have significantly better pensions than those in the private sector, especially given the former Labour Government’s tax raid on private pension funds of around £5 billion a year, which took up to £100 billion out of private pension funds.
It is obvious that Scottish Labour has not read or understood Lord Hutton’s report, so let me give some examples of the proposals.
As recently as 2 November, the UK coalition Government placed a new offer on the table of an 8 per cent increase in the accrual rate, and it is committed to continue working constructively with unions for a settlement.
Having read the Labour amendment, I think that it is important to set out the facts. Most public sector workers will see no reduction in the pension that they receive on retirement, with many low and middle-income earners receiving a larger pension income on retirement. Any worker within 10 years of retirement will see no change to the age at which they can retire and no change to the amount of pension that they will receive when they retire.
After all the reforms, people in the public sector will still have significantly better pensions than those in the private sector, especially given the former Labour Government’s tax raid on private pension funds of around £5 billion a year, which took up to £100 billion out of private pension funds.
It is obvious that Scottish Labour has not read or understood Lord Hutton’s report, so let me give some examples of the proposals.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-01348, in the name of Mary Scanlon, on the role of the public sector.10:31
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I begin by acknowledging the valuable contribution that the public sector makes to the economy and society in Scotland. It is that hugely valued contribution...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Mary Scanlon
Con
I will make some progress, if the member does not mind.As recently as 2 November, the UK coalition Government placed a new offer on the table of an 8 per cen...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Mary Scanlon
Con
I would like to give some examples so that I can put the member right.A nurse with a salary at retirement of £34,000 would receive a pension of £23,000 if th...
Richard Baker
Lab
I am glad that Mary Scanlon has given me an opportunity to make my point so that she can establish whether I am wrong before she replies to it. Mary Scanlon ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
You have less than one minute, Ms Scanlon.
Mary Scanlon
Con
I appreciate that, Presiding Officer.When it comes to a cut in pension scheme benefits, the biggest cut that anyone could ever see is the £100 billion that G...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I call John Swinney to speak to and move amendment S4M-01348.2. Mr Swinney, you have seven minutes.10:41
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney)
SNP
It is a pleasure to speak on behalf of the Government in this debate and to begin by welcoming Mary Scanlon to her new post. This is new territory indeed—it ...
Neil Findlay
Lab
I thank Mr Swinney for mentioning the new Conservative leader. Given the nature of this debate, is he aware that not long ago the new Conservative leader was...
John Swinney
SNP
That just goes to prove that every individual has a right to protest and to strike and, moreover, to change their mind about these issues.
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I am grateful that the cabinet secretary reminds us that every individual has the right to change their mind. Will he urge the Cabinet Secretary for Parliame...
John Swinney
SNP
No, I will not encourage the cabinet secretary to change his mind, because it is entirely appropriate that Parliament sits on every day that it is due to sit...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Order.
John Swinney
SNP
Before we move on to pensions, I want to spend a few moments discussing the public sector. Despite all the warm and considered words in Mary Scanlon’s openin...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Does the cabinet secretary agree that although focusing on preventative spend is all very well, what really matters is outcomes, and that that is where this ...
John Swinney
SNP
That is just complete and total rubbish. If Margaret Mitchell looks at the Government’s national performance framework, which she derided in her earlier spee...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
You must close, please.
John Swinney
SNP
The Scottish Government will firmly set out to Parliament on 30 November our principal reasons why the UK Government is taking the wrong course. We will make...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I now call Richard Baker to speak to and move amendment S4M-01348.3. You have a very tight five minutes. We have absolutely no spare time left in this debate...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I, too, welcome Mary Scanlon to her new post, but I must say that the Conservative motion today might be best described as a “Life on Mars” motion. While eve...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
We move to the open debate. Speeches should be a tight four minutes. Unfortunately, we will have to stop the clock on members at four minutes.10:54
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome Mary Scanlon to her new role.In speaking in support of the cabinet secretary’s amendment, I agree with him that this Trojan horse of a motion has n...
Mary Scanlon
Con
Will the member give way?
Chic Brodie
SNP
No—I have only four minutes.This smash-and-grab raid is a means of not only reducing the deficit more quickly but dismissing the sustainability of long-term ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
First of all, I thank the Tory party for lodging a very important motion that gives us the opportunity to debate something that we probably do not debate eno...
John Swinney
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Neil Findlay
Lab
I have four minutes—not a chance. It was down to the greed of the bankers and their accomplices.