Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 23 November 2011
23 Nov 2011 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Carers and Young Carers Strategy
I would like to look at the issue in the context of the fact that my wife and I are now both carers for an extremely elderly relative. I acknowledge that our life is very simple, for reasons that I will explain, but I will tease out from that some issues that I do not think have been mentioned in the debate.
The first reason why our life is relatively straightforward is that the lady in question still has some mental capacity, albeit that she has a very poor short-term memory. She also accepts her limitations, which means that she is not particularly argumentative. She also does not have any particularly significant recurring medical issues, which I have to knowledge is unlikely for someone who is 96. There are of course some issues for her, because old age does not come alone.
Equally, we live in a new and therefore relatively warm house. There are also two of us. My wife and I share the responsibility, which makes life a lot easier, and we are still fit and pretty able. We get a great deal of help from Angus Council and, of course, the free personal care is greatly appreciated. Equally, we get some respite care and, to be fair, money is not a particular issue for us, as I think members would have expected. However, let me reflect for a few moments on the situation if any of that was not the case, because I recognise that it is not the case for many carers.
In particular, I acknowledge that our experience of our local health service is that the staff recognise the need to talk to us as well as to the elderly relative who cannot remember what was said 30 seconds ago. They understand the need to communicate with the carer as well as with the patient. Equally, they understand the need for a home visit, partly because Wendy and I both work but possibly also because it is not very far for them to come and that is a much better way of operating.
I also note that there are two of us, but I am pretty sure that, where there is only one carer, it is desperately difficult. The carers I have spoken to—I will come on to some of them in half a moment—often speak about a sense of isolation, and say that they are busy doing what they have to do, that they feel that they have to keep doing it and cannot leave the person they are caring for and that therefore they are all on their own and nobody else knows or understands. Sometimes, it just does not occur to them to tell people and to get some help. Because there are two of us, that makes it fine for us, but those who are working on their own need to understand that there is support. It may be that one of the most important things that we need to do as a society is to ensure that they understand that there is support available of one sort or another.
Like others, I have seen e-mails from folk who think that the services that they receive as carers are, frankly, not very good. Some of them are grudging, and some of them have a take-it-or-leave-it attitude. In our experience in Angus, the professionalism, the charm and the good humour of the staff are the most obvious thing that comes across to me. I recognise that our elderly relative is probably more placid than some, but that does not alter the fact that an elderly person who has a very short memory, if any, is a desperately difficult person to deal with. Those who can do that, day in, day out, with good humour and often under considerable time pressure because they are always travelling around need to be praised for that.
It will not surprise members to learn that we have to pay for respite. That really is not a problem. However, I recognise the comments across the chamber that more respite is a good thing. However difficult it might be to arrange it, carers need time to get the brain back in gear—me time—and time to get on with some of the things that they cannot do with the distraction of having someone else there who makes demands on their time. I should say, however, that some of the respite care that is available is better than that. When our elderly relative has gone into the care homes—she has been in one in Angus and one in Aberdeen—it seems, frankly, like she has had a holiday. Her time in those places has been hugely stimulating. Again, I pay tribute to the professionalism of the staff, who seem to have given her an extremely good time, and members will appreciate that we had a good time as a consequence of the respite.
I welcome in particular the work that has been done by the Angus Carers Association, which is managed by Katie Webster in Arbroath and is an organisation that I have something to do with. It supplies free services, including emotional support, training for carers, relaxation therapies, counselling, leisure and exercise opportunities, support groups and a sitting service. That latter service is probably the most important, because it is the equivalent of respite. The group says, “You can come here and have time with a group doing anything you like and, for the couple of hours that you are out of the house, we will have a trained person there with the one you love, so that you get some time out.”
Fundamentally, this issue is about joined-up action, adequate funding and the personal touch that carers provide. Of course, the more we can do to act earlier and in a preventative way, the better.
16:03
The first reason why our life is relatively straightforward is that the lady in question still has some mental capacity, albeit that she has a very poor short-term memory. She also accepts her limitations, which means that she is not particularly argumentative. She also does not have any particularly significant recurring medical issues, which I have to knowledge is unlikely for someone who is 96. There are of course some issues for her, because old age does not come alone.
Equally, we live in a new and therefore relatively warm house. There are also two of us. My wife and I share the responsibility, which makes life a lot easier, and we are still fit and pretty able. We get a great deal of help from Angus Council and, of course, the free personal care is greatly appreciated. Equally, we get some respite care and, to be fair, money is not a particular issue for us, as I think members would have expected. However, let me reflect for a few moments on the situation if any of that was not the case, because I recognise that it is not the case for many carers.
In particular, I acknowledge that our experience of our local health service is that the staff recognise the need to talk to us as well as to the elderly relative who cannot remember what was said 30 seconds ago. They understand the need to communicate with the carer as well as with the patient. Equally, they understand the need for a home visit, partly because Wendy and I both work but possibly also because it is not very far for them to come and that is a much better way of operating.
I also note that there are two of us, but I am pretty sure that, where there is only one carer, it is desperately difficult. The carers I have spoken to—I will come on to some of them in half a moment—often speak about a sense of isolation, and say that they are busy doing what they have to do, that they feel that they have to keep doing it and cannot leave the person they are caring for and that therefore they are all on their own and nobody else knows or understands. Sometimes, it just does not occur to them to tell people and to get some help. Because there are two of us, that makes it fine for us, but those who are working on their own need to understand that there is support. It may be that one of the most important things that we need to do as a society is to ensure that they understand that there is support available of one sort or another.
Like others, I have seen e-mails from folk who think that the services that they receive as carers are, frankly, not very good. Some of them are grudging, and some of them have a take-it-or-leave-it attitude. In our experience in Angus, the professionalism, the charm and the good humour of the staff are the most obvious thing that comes across to me. I recognise that our elderly relative is probably more placid than some, but that does not alter the fact that an elderly person who has a very short memory, if any, is a desperately difficult person to deal with. Those who can do that, day in, day out, with good humour and often under considerable time pressure because they are always travelling around need to be praised for that.
It will not surprise members to learn that we have to pay for respite. That really is not a problem. However, I recognise the comments across the chamber that more respite is a good thing. However difficult it might be to arrange it, carers need time to get the brain back in gear—me time—and time to get on with some of the things that they cannot do with the distraction of having someone else there who makes demands on their time. I should say, however, that some of the respite care that is available is better than that. When our elderly relative has gone into the care homes—she has been in one in Angus and one in Aberdeen—it seems, frankly, like she has had a holiday. Her time in those places has been hugely stimulating. Again, I pay tribute to the professionalism of the staff, who seem to have given her an extremely good time, and members will appreciate that we had a good time as a consequence of the respite.
I welcome in particular the work that has been done by the Angus Carers Association, which is managed by Katie Webster in Arbroath and is an organisation that I have something to do with. It supplies free services, including emotional support, training for carers, relaxation therapies, counselling, leisure and exercise opportunities, support groups and a sitting service. That latter service is probably the most important, because it is the equivalent of respite. The group says, “You can come here and have time with a group doing anything you like and, for the couple of hours that you are out of the house, we will have a trained person there with the one you love, so that you get some time out.”
Fundamentally, this issue is about joined-up action, adequate funding and the personal touch that carers provide. Of course, the more we can do to act earlier and in a preventative way, the better.
16:03
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-01399, in the name of Michael Matheson, on implementation of the carers and young carers strategy.14:33
The Minister for Public Health (Michael Matheson)
SNP
I open the debate by acknowledging the huge commitment and support that is provided by Scotland’s estimated 650,000 carers and up to 100,000 young carers. Un...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I certainly do not doubt the minister’s intention, but how is the Government going to monitor the situation to ensure that that happens? It is what happens o...
Michael Matheson
SNP
We have 32 local delivery change plans in place. They must be signed off by the health board, the local authority and the third sector. When a bid is made fo...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I call Richard Simpson to speak to and move amendment S4M-1399.3. Dr Simpson, you have 10 minutes. 14:48
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome this opportunity to open and close this important debate. My colleague Claire Baker will talk in more detail about child and student carers, as wel...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
With regard to the financial impact, does Dr Simpson share my regret that the carers allowance remains such a pitiful sum, and excludes many carers—particula...
Dr Simpson
Lab
I agree with Mark McDonald on that, and I add that the Welfare Reform Bill will not help matters, because some carers will lose their allowance as people wil...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member needs to wind up.
Dr Simpson
Lab
We acknowledge the Government’s motion.I move amendment S4M-01399.3, to leave out from “agrees” to end and insert:“further acknowledges promises in successiv...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
In recognising the enormous contribution that carers and young carers make to society and to the Scottish economy through the considerable sums of money that...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
If we asked for a show of hands from members who are either carers or who know of someone close to them who is a carer, we would have an almost 100 per cent ...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
SNP
The minister made it clear in his speech just how much the Scottish Government recognises the debt that Scotland owes to its carers and the huge role that th...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in this debate on carers. My family chose to be carers—they made a positive decision to take on the responsibility of ...
Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
SNP
First, I declare an interest as co-convener of the current cross-party group on carers, having been a deputy convener of the group in session 3 of the Parlia...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I very much welcome the strategy and the strong statement of intent that it contains. It is clear from what the minister has said, and indeed from the increa...
Siobhan McMahon (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
When I read the Government’s carers strategy, one passage immediately stood out:“Carers are ... fundamental to strong families and partnerships and to resili...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
I suspend the meeting until the sound gets sorted out.15:35 Meeting suspended. 15:44 On resuming—
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
If members are sitting comfortably, we will begin again. I invite Siobhan McMahon to resume at an appropriate place in her speech; we will be generous with t...
Siobhan McMahon
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I apologise for breaking the system.A recurrent problem with Government strategies is the glaring contrast between the words on...
Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP)
SNP
I am aware of X and I am glad that Siobhan McMahon has raised her case. Does the member agree that sometimes the intention to help people does not work out? ...
Siobhan McMahon
Lab
I could not agree more. Those problems will develop as we go forward in life, as challenges face us.Local authorities must view the provision of short breaks...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I am sorry about the interruption. I call Fiona McLeod, who will have a very tight six minutes. Others may have to reduce their speeches.15:50
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
Last Friday, I was at the Carers Link East Dunbartonshire annual general meeting. In the past year, Carers Link East Dunbartonshire has identified and suppor...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
SNP
I would like to look at the issue in the context of the fact that my wife and I are now both carers for an extremely elderly relative. I acknowledge that our...
Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome this opportunity to speak in the debate on the Government’s strategy for carers, especially as carers’ rights day will take place on Friday 2 Decem...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The member must conclude, please.
Margaret McCulloch
Lab
—but they are all to be praised for the service that they give and the sacrifices that they make.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I call George Adam, who has a maximum of six minutes.16:08
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer—I will try to be as succinct as possible in order to let other colleagues in. I see that members are laughing, but I promise tha...