Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 23 November 2011
23 Nov 2011 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Carers and Young Carers Strategy
The minister made it clear in his speech just how much the Scottish Government recognises the debt that Scotland owes to its carers and the huge role that they play in the economy and the wellbeing of the country. I was particularly delighted to hear him talk about short breaks and the £2 million fund that has just been announced. The carers and young carers strategy is all about ensuring that our carers are recognised as equal partners in care, that they are fully engaged in the planning and development of the delivery of care, and that they are not disadvantaged in any way by virtue of being a carer. That is a bold vision, but it is the right one.
There are around 657,000 carers in Scotland, which is an eighth of the entire population. That is a huge number that surprises us until we start to think of all the people we know who look after their mother, husband, wife or child without thinking about it or recognising that they are a carer. In my family, an elderly relative was looked after by her daughter. It was only when someone in the care home in which that relative eventually ended up described her daughter as a carer that she recognised that she was indeed a carer. I am sure that that is not an uncommon story.
Through their sacrifices, carers save the public purse a massive £10.3 billion each and every year, which is almost the equivalent of the entire NHS budget for Scotland. What would we do without them?
That is why we must get the strategy right, and I believe that the Government has done that, although it will not be without its challenges. The number 1 challenge is to ensure that the partners play their roles. Let us consider the change fund, for instance. I understand that ministers cannot demand that local authorities reach agreement in a particular way, but the challenge now is for those local authorities with their partners to revisit their local carer strategies, adapt them as and when necessary, and fully involve the third sector throughout the process. I am pleased that the Scottish Government said in its report that it will produce a list of key points that local strategies should address to assist local government and its partners, not least because the feedback that I have received from concerned organisations is that Glasgow City Council has proved reluctant to engage in any meaningful dialogue with third sector partners. I have also been made aware of real concern that a substantial proportion of the £7.9 million that has been made available to Glasgow through the change fund has been used on statutory services that perhaps should already be provided. Those are vital services, but that is not what the money was meant to be spent on; it was meant to ensure that carers throughout the city had greater resources available.
How the change fund is used and how it makes the lives of Scotland’s older people and carers better should be of great concern to all elected members in Glasgow, no matter what party they are members of. I know that that greatly concerns carers themselves, who already think that they have not always been consulted properly when it was being decided how the money should be spent. Given that, will the minister reaffirm in his winding-up speech—I know that he has already touched on this—what he can do to ensure that there is clear accountability for how the change fund is being used and how he can ensure that the promise that has been made to carers about 20 per cent of the change fund money being made available directly to unpaid carers will be delivered on the ground through local organisations?
I am extremely fortunate to have in my constituency the fantastic Princess Royal Trust Glasgow south-east carers centre, which is run by Julie Young and her small but perfectly formed team from the Castlemilk office. They currently receive just less than £300,000 from the local authority to deliver the services that they provide. From that, they generate an incredible £3.26 million in social return and investment. Therefore, for every £1 that Glasgow City Council gives that centre, it gets a return of approximately £11. That is important, but from my visits to the centre I can vouch for the most important role that it plays being in giving hope and support to some of those in our society with the heaviest burdens to carry. On my most recent visit to the centre, I met more than 20 carers who were there to tell me their stories. Some of them were heart-rending, yet not once did I hear any self pity or any sense of people asking, “Why me?” Time and again, they told me, “We wouldn’t have made it without this place.”
Like several other members, I have had the pleasure of spending time with a couple of carers in my constituency. I decided to do that because, although I had met carers, those who need the support of carers and those who represent them, and had even spoken in the chamber about carers, I still had not seen for myself at first hand what their day-to-day existence is truly like. I accept that we cannot find that out by spending just one day with a carer, but what an eye-opener it was. Spending time with Linda Stoddart and Linda Hamilton was immensely humbling and informative and a surprisingly entertaining experience. Meeting those two intelligent, successful women, who put the care of their loved ones first, was remarkable. Their decision involved putting their career on hold, accepting the inevitable drop in household income and often seeing less of the rest of their family, as well as accepting that their social life would be massively curtailed and that precious me time would be a luxury. It was a huge price to pay, but both those remarkable women accepted it.
That is the what the reality of life can be like for a carer. I was blown away by the sacrifice that the two Lindas had made. They play extraordinary roles in our society that require 24/7 commitment, dedication and a charitable spirit. However, I was most struck by the fact that they do not view their role as a service, but instead see it as the natural and obvious thing to do when someone so close to them requires the support that only they can provide. It is heartwarming to find that a sense of loyalty to one’s fellow human beings is alive and well. In their case, it is a family loyalty, but we all know people in our society who care for friends, neighbours and others.
Scotland’s army of carers are a shining example of all that is good about this country, which is why it is important that we do what is right for them and ensure that we get the strategy and the change fund right—we owe that to them. This is not the time for party politics. I ask members please to support the carers and the motion.
15:16
There are around 657,000 carers in Scotland, which is an eighth of the entire population. That is a huge number that surprises us until we start to think of all the people we know who look after their mother, husband, wife or child without thinking about it or recognising that they are a carer. In my family, an elderly relative was looked after by her daughter. It was only when someone in the care home in which that relative eventually ended up described her daughter as a carer that she recognised that she was indeed a carer. I am sure that that is not an uncommon story.
Through their sacrifices, carers save the public purse a massive £10.3 billion each and every year, which is almost the equivalent of the entire NHS budget for Scotland. What would we do without them?
That is why we must get the strategy right, and I believe that the Government has done that, although it will not be without its challenges. The number 1 challenge is to ensure that the partners play their roles. Let us consider the change fund, for instance. I understand that ministers cannot demand that local authorities reach agreement in a particular way, but the challenge now is for those local authorities with their partners to revisit their local carer strategies, adapt them as and when necessary, and fully involve the third sector throughout the process. I am pleased that the Scottish Government said in its report that it will produce a list of key points that local strategies should address to assist local government and its partners, not least because the feedback that I have received from concerned organisations is that Glasgow City Council has proved reluctant to engage in any meaningful dialogue with third sector partners. I have also been made aware of real concern that a substantial proportion of the £7.9 million that has been made available to Glasgow through the change fund has been used on statutory services that perhaps should already be provided. Those are vital services, but that is not what the money was meant to be spent on; it was meant to ensure that carers throughout the city had greater resources available.
How the change fund is used and how it makes the lives of Scotland’s older people and carers better should be of great concern to all elected members in Glasgow, no matter what party they are members of. I know that that greatly concerns carers themselves, who already think that they have not always been consulted properly when it was being decided how the money should be spent. Given that, will the minister reaffirm in his winding-up speech—I know that he has already touched on this—what he can do to ensure that there is clear accountability for how the change fund is being used and how he can ensure that the promise that has been made to carers about 20 per cent of the change fund money being made available directly to unpaid carers will be delivered on the ground through local organisations?
I am extremely fortunate to have in my constituency the fantastic Princess Royal Trust Glasgow south-east carers centre, which is run by Julie Young and her small but perfectly formed team from the Castlemilk office. They currently receive just less than £300,000 from the local authority to deliver the services that they provide. From that, they generate an incredible £3.26 million in social return and investment. Therefore, for every £1 that Glasgow City Council gives that centre, it gets a return of approximately £11. That is important, but from my visits to the centre I can vouch for the most important role that it plays being in giving hope and support to some of those in our society with the heaviest burdens to carry. On my most recent visit to the centre, I met more than 20 carers who were there to tell me their stories. Some of them were heart-rending, yet not once did I hear any self pity or any sense of people asking, “Why me?” Time and again, they told me, “We wouldn’t have made it without this place.”
Like several other members, I have had the pleasure of spending time with a couple of carers in my constituency. I decided to do that because, although I had met carers, those who need the support of carers and those who represent them, and had even spoken in the chamber about carers, I still had not seen for myself at first hand what their day-to-day existence is truly like. I accept that we cannot find that out by spending just one day with a carer, but what an eye-opener it was. Spending time with Linda Stoddart and Linda Hamilton was immensely humbling and informative and a surprisingly entertaining experience. Meeting those two intelligent, successful women, who put the care of their loved ones first, was remarkable. Their decision involved putting their career on hold, accepting the inevitable drop in household income and often seeing less of the rest of their family, as well as accepting that their social life would be massively curtailed and that precious me time would be a luxury. It was a huge price to pay, but both those remarkable women accepted it.
That is the what the reality of life can be like for a carer. I was blown away by the sacrifice that the two Lindas had made. They play extraordinary roles in our society that require 24/7 commitment, dedication and a charitable spirit. However, I was most struck by the fact that they do not view their role as a service, but instead see it as the natural and obvious thing to do when someone so close to them requires the support that only they can provide. It is heartwarming to find that a sense of loyalty to one’s fellow human beings is alive and well. In their case, it is a family loyalty, but we all know people in our society who care for friends, neighbours and others.
Scotland’s army of carers are a shining example of all that is good about this country, which is why it is important that we do what is right for them and ensure that we get the strategy and the change fund right—we owe that to them. This is not the time for party politics. I ask members please to support the carers and the motion.
15:16
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-01399, in the name of Michael Matheson, on implementation of the carers and young carers strategy.14:33
The Minister for Public Health (Michael Matheson)
SNP
I open the debate by acknowledging the huge commitment and support that is provided by Scotland’s estimated 650,000 carers and up to 100,000 young carers. Un...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I certainly do not doubt the minister’s intention, but how is the Government going to monitor the situation to ensure that that happens? It is what happens o...
Michael Matheson
SNP
We have 32 local delivery change plans in place. They must be signed off by the health board, the local authority and the third sector. When a bid is made fo...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I call Richard Simpson to speak to and move amendment S4M-1399.3. Dr Simpson, you have 10 minutes. 14:48
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome this opportunity to open and close this important debate. My colleague Claire Baker will talk in more detail about child and student carers, as wel...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
With regard to the financial impact, does Dr Simpson share my regret that the carers allowance remains such a pitiful sum, and excludes many carers—particula...
Dr Simpson
Lab
I agree with Mark McDonald on that, and I add that the Welfare Reform Bill will not help matters, because some carers will lose their allowance as people wil...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member needs to wind up.
Dr Simpson
Lab
We acknowledge the Government’s motion.I move amendment S4M-01399.3, to leave out from “agrees” to end and insert:“further acknowledges promises in successiv...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
In recognising the enormous contribution that carers and young carers make to society and to the Scottish economy through the considerable sums of money that...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
If we asked for a show of hands from members who are either carers or who know of someone close to them who is a carer, we would have an almost 100 per cent ...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
SNP
The minister made it clear in his speech just how much the Scottish Government recognises the debt that Scotland owes to its carers and the huge role that th...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in this debate on carers. My family chose to be carers—they made a positive decision to take on the responsibility of ...
Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
SNP
First, I declare an interest as co-convener of the current cross-party group on carers, having been a deputy convener of the group in session 3 of the Parlia...
Mark McDonald (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I very much welcome the strategy and the strong statement of intent that it contains. It is clear from what the minister has said, and indeed from the increa...
Siobhan McMahon (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
When I read the Government’s carers strategy, one passage immediately stood out:“Carers are ... fundamental to strong families and partnerships and to resili...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
I suspend the meeting until the sound gets sorted out.15:35 Meeting suspended. 15:44 On resuming—
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
If members are sitting comfortably, we will begin again. I invite Siobhan McMahon to resume at an appropriate place in her speech; we will be generous with t...
Siobhan McMahon
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I apologise for breaking the system.A recurrent problem with Government strategies is the glaring contrast between the words on...
Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP)
SNP
I am aware of X and I am glad that Siobhan McMahon has raised her case. Does the member agree that sometimes the intention to help people does not work out? ...
Siobhan McMahon
Lab
I could not agree more. Those problems will develop as we go forward in life, as challenges face us.Local authorities must view the provision of short breaks...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I am sorry about the interruption. I call Fiona McLeod, who will have a very tight six minutes. Others may have to reduce their speeches.15:50
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
Last Friday, I was at the Carers Link East Dunbartonshire annual general meeting. In the past year, Carers Link East Dunbartonshire has identified and suppor...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
SNP
I would like to look at the issue in the context of the fact that my wife and I are now both carers for an extremely elderly relative. I acknowledge that our...
Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome this opportunity to speak in the debate on the Government’s strategy for carers, especially as carers’ rights day will take place on Friday 2 Decem...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The member must conclude, please.
Margaret McCulloch
Lab
—but they are all to be praised for the service that they give and the sacrifices that they make.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I call George Adam, who has a maximum of six minutes.16:08
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer—I will try to be as succinct as possible in order to let other colleagues in. I see that members are laughing, but I promise tha...