Committee
Education, Culture and Sport Committee, 11 Mar 2003
11 Mar 2003 · S1 · Education, Culture and Sport Committee
Item of business
Subordinate Legislation
Schools (Scotland) Code Amendment Regulations 2003 (SSI 2003/75)
I have concerns about nursery teachers. We support integrated working, with social work and education working more closely together. I accept that the regulations do not compel local authorities to remove teachers from pre-school settings, but there is a feeling that that might happen. One of the triggers might be efforts by some local authorities to reduce costs. I know that when the guidance first came out, the General Teaching Council for Scotland placed on record its concerns that any reduction in the role of teachers might damage the education system and the success of early-intervention, literacy and numeracy initiatives.My queries and concerns are around those points. I suppose that I want to hear some reassurance from the Executive that the proposed flexibility will not result in lower pay and lower levels of qualification, especially given that nursery nurses are balloting on whether to take strike action on their pay and conditions. What guarantees or quality protectors will there be to ensure that, following repeal of the code, standards will remain high, if not increase?
In the same item of business
The Deputy Convener:
Lab
The committee must consider the Schools (Scotland) Code Amendment Regulations 2003 (SSI 2003/75) under the negative procedure.
Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
We have points to raise, if that is appropriate.
The Deputy Convener:
Lab
Okay.
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I have concerns about nursery teachers. We support integrated working, with social work and education working more closely together. I accept that the regula...
The Deputy Convener:
Lab
I will just interrupt you for a moment to welcome Stewart Robertson from the teachers division of the education department and Val Cox, who is the head of th...
Irene McGugan:
SNP
That explains my hesitation at the beginning, convener—you had not yet introduced the people whom I was going to address.
The Deputy Convener:
Lab
I had some papers and I was reading to see what was coming next.
Michael Russell:
SNP
It is very Victorian, but we feel that we have to have an introduction before we address people.
The Deputy Convener:
Lab
Absolutely.
Val Cox (Scottish Executive Education Department):
Now that I have been introduced, I can hold forth. Irene McGugan has raised some important issues, but I think that I can offer reassurance on all the points...
Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
Paragraph 6 of the Executive note says:"The repeal allows more flexibility for local authorities to deploy staff according to their skills and experience not...
Val Cox:
We all acknowledge that teachers bring with them an important range of experiences and expertise. Our guidance is clear on the involvement of teachers in pre...
Ian Jenkins:
LD
That implies that teacher input, oversight or contact with all providers would be a good thing.
Val Cox:
That is absolutely what the policy is aiming for. The intention is to secure a level playing field throughout all forms of pre-school provision, whether stat...
Michael Russell:
SNP
There is something seductive about saying, "We are going to sweep away some old regulations because they stifle initiative." However, my alarm was increased ...
Stewart Robertson (Scottish Executive Education Department):
The code, which is discretionary on local authorities, sets out the type of promoted post that can be deployed. The agreement document "A Teaching Profession...
Michael Russell:
SNP
So why repeal those provisions?
Stewart Robertson:
Because the agreement does away with assistant head teachers. The new structure consists of head teacher, deputy head teacher, principal teacher and so on.
Michael Russell:
SNP
Why do we not amend the code just to do away with assistant head teachers? Why do away with the entire listing?
Stewart Robertson:
Because there is no need to legislate on such a detailed matter, which could be covered by the agreement.
Michael Russell:
SNP
You said that the code is not mandatory, but advisory. If the change in structure requires only the removal of the post of assistant head teacher, why are al...
Stewart Robertson:
It is difficult to keep the code up to date. At the moment, it does not cover all the promoted posts. There are senior teachers and deputy heads in primary s...
Michael Russell:
SNP
So you are telling me that, even with the removal of regulation 6(2), the tripartite agreement that is still to be reached between the Executive, unions and ...
Stewart Robertson:
The agreement that has been reached deals with the promoted-post structure. However, the number of promoted posts is probably a matter for local authorities ...
Michael Russell:
SNP
Does not the same argument apply to the promoted-post structure in primary schools? Some authorities are considering radical proposals that would change the ...
Stewart Robertson:
The same argument applies. The agreement also suggests that there will be principal teachers in primary schools, for example. If the code were to be kept as ...
Michael Russell:
SNP
Okay. My next point is about the size of classes in nursery, secondary and special schools. Why is it necessary to repeal the code in that respect?
Stewart Robertson:
The class sizes for secondary schools and special schools are out of date in the code; they were overtaken by agreements in the Scottish Joint Negotiating Co...
Val Cox:
There are two points in relation to nursery provision. One is that, as members have heard, we intend to provide for more flexible use of teachers. The code d...
Michael Russell:
SNP
I notice that paragraph 15, which is on the financial effects, states:"The repeal will not impose any additional financial burden on local authorities."Some ...