Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 09 March 2011
09 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
“Report on preventative spending”
As others have done, I acknowledge Andrew Welsh’s service. I will not repeat all the plaudits. I simply say to him that he should be proud of his public service over a long number of years and of the way in which he chaired the Finance Committee and steered the report to its final conclusions. I wish him well in whatever he chooses to do when he leaves this place.
Every committee wants its work to count and to make a difference. At the risk of being accused of special pleading, I must say that the report, which is focused on preventative spending in the early years, can make the kind of difference that we all came into politics to make in the first place.
So much of the discourse in this place is bluster and hyperbole, but the truth is that between the parties of any size in this chamber there is always more that unites us than divides us. Here is a policy direction that can and should unite all sections of the chamber. Here is a policy to inspire and revolutionise our society.
Mr Swinney was right when he made the point a few moments ago that it is far harder to stop a policy than it is to start one. If we are serious about finding the means and resources for preventative spending in the early years, we need to be serious about facing up to very hard decisions over policies that were started with the very best of intentions but for which the evidence base of outcomes having been produced simply does not exist. When we can do that, we will make shifting from current expenditure to a new form of expenditure easier, if not easy.
This is not untried or untested territory. If the report did anything, it demonstrated the wealth of evidence from around the world that has emerged over a long period of time. Nordic countries and the United States have seen a real difference with sizeable reductions in contacts with the justice system, sizeable improvements in educational attainment and marked improvements in health outcomes over a long period of time.
Investment in the early years is an investment in the nourishment of our society. It is the reintroduction of human beings with empathy.
One of the things that we learned—I am sure that many members knew this already—was that by the age of three, a child’s brain has almost fully developed and what has been lost can never be regained. The best illustration that we saw of that was two images of two different children’s brains. One child was three years of age and their brain filled the entire skull. That child came from a background of nourishment, love and encouragement. The other child came from what we would describe as a chaotic background, for want of a better expression. Their brain was markedly smaller. That child’s capacity and life chances were set in stone at the age of three, because the support, nourishment and empathy simply had not been there, because of the circumstances that they were born into.
That, in essence, is what preventative spending is about. It is about taking the huge decision to channel resources towards those who are more challenged and towards providing that nourishment and support in order to ensure that by the age of three every child has the best chance of having developed the mental capacity that will sustain them through the rest of their life.
By the time a child is five, neuroscientists and a range of other specialists can predict their life journey in terms of educational attainment, health outcomes and contact with the justice system—the impact that that child will have in our society. I have heard primary school teachers say that when they receive children at the age of five, they can often tell the children who will flourish and those who will be challenged.
That is not just anecdotal evidence. This report demonstrates that that is proven, not just in this country but in countries around the world. By the age of five, if a child is lost, regaining them and giving them the life opportunities that we would expect them to have is a gargantuan task.
We have a stark choice: embrace the incontrovertible evidence and knowledge, or continue to promote the intergenerational failure that increasingly curses our communities.
As many have said, we need a political consensus. We need brave politicians who can see beyond the electoral cycle. I know that some have said that the returns will be in the long term. We received a piece of evidence from a pilot that showed that, with the appropriate support, parents under 21 who would normally attend only about 30 per cent of their doctor’s appointments can reach a level of 90 per cent attendance. That is an immediate win, not only for public expenditure, but for the development of the children of those young parents and for the parents’ understanding of what is required to help their children to develop.
If we pay nothing more than lip service to a comprehensive restructuring of our early years intervention, we will diminish individual opportunity and will continue to perpetuate an unsustainable system. In the face of the incontrovertible evidence, we need to learn what others have learned and put that learning into practice so that we can say that, on our watch, we put in place the building blocks of a more cohesive society.
As others have said, we need to face up to the challenges of making that fundamental shift. We need to face up to the protectionism and the professional demarcation that will stand in its way. It is in the interests of our children and those in society who face substantial challenges in preventing intergenerational failure that we do so.
With the committee’s report, we have a massive opportunity to demonstrate how politics can revolutionise our society. Given that faith in politics and politicians is hardly at a high, surely now is the time for all those members across the chamber who came into politics for the right reasons to take the right decisions to reinstitute that faith in the systems that we have to guide our society.
Every committee wants its work to count and to make a difference. At the risk of being accused of special pleading, I must say that the report, which is focused on preventative spending in the early years, can make the kind of difference that we all came into politics to make in the first place.
So much of the discourse in this place is bluster and hyperbole, but the truth is that between the parties of any size in this chamber there is always more that unites us than divides us. Here is a policy direction that can and should unite all sections of the chamber. Here is a policy to inspire and revolutionise our society.
Mr Swinney was right when he made the point a few moments ago that it is far harder to stop a policy than it is to start one. If we are serious about finding the means and resources for preventative spending in the early years, we need to be serious about facing up to very hard decisions over policies that were started with the very best of intentions but for which the evidence base of outcomes having been produced simply does not exist. When we can do that, we will make shifting from current expenditure to a new form of expenditure easier, if not easy.
This is not untried or untested territory. If the report did anything, it demonstrated the wealth of evidence from around the world that has emerged over a long period of time. Nordic countries and the United States have seen a real difference with sizeable reductions in contacts with the justice system, sizeable improvements in educational attainment and marked improvements in health outcomes over a long period of time.
Investment in the early years is an investment in the nourishment of our society. It is the reintroduction of human beings with empathy.
One of the things that we learned—I am sure that many members knew this already—was that by the age of three, a child’s brain has almost fully developed and what has been lost can never be regained. The best illustration that we saw of that was two images of two different children’s brains. One child was three years of age and their brain filled the entire skull. That child came from a background of nourishment, love and encouragement. The other child came from what we would describe as a chaotic background, for want of a better expression. Their brain was markedly smaller. That child’s capacity and life chances were set in stone at the age of three, because the support, nourishment and empathy simply had not been there, because of the circumstances that they were born into.
That, in essence, is what preventative spending is about. It is about taking the huge decision to channel resources towards those who are more challenged and towards providing that nourishment and support in order to ensure that by the age of three every child has the best chance of having developed the mental capacity that will sustain them through the rest of their life.
By the time a child is five, neuroscientists and a range of other specialists can predict their life journey in terms of educational attainment, health outcomes and contact with the justice system—the impact that that child will have in our society. I have heard primary school teachers say that when they receive children at the age of five, they can often tell the children who will flourish and those who will be challenged.
That is not just anecdotal evidence. This report demonstrates that that is proven, not just in this country but in countries around the world. By the age of five, if a child is lost, regaining them and giving them the life opportunities that we would expect them to have is a gargantuan task.
We have a stark choice: embrace the incontrovertible evidence and knowledge, or continue to promote the intergenerational failure that increasingly curses our communities.
As many have said, we need a political consensus. We need brave politicians who can see beyond the electoral cycle. I know that some have said that the returns will be in the long term. We received a piece of evidence from a pilot that showed that, with the appropriate support, parents under 21 who would normally attend only about 30 per cent of their doctor’s appointments can reach a level of 90 per cent attendance. That is an immediate win, not only for public expenditure, but for the development of the children of those young parents and for the parents’ understanding of what is required to help their children to develop.
If we pay nothing more than lip service to a comprehensive restructuring of our early years intervention, we will diminish individual opportunity and will continue to perpetuate an unsustainable system. In the face of the incontrovertible evidence, we need to learn what others have learned and put that learning into practice so that we can say that, on our watch, we put in place the building blocks of a more cohesive society.
As others have said, we need to face up to the challenges of making that fundamental shift. We need to face up to the protectionism and the professional demarcation that will stand in its way. It is in the interests of our children and those in society who face substantial challenges in preventing intergenerational failure that we do so.
With the committee’s report, we have a massive opportunity to demonstrate how politics can revolutionise our society. Given that faith in politics and politicians is hardly at a high, surely now is the time for all those members across the chamber who came into politics for the right reasons to take the right decisions to reinstitute that faith in the systems that we have to guide our society.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-7994, in the name of Andrew Welsh, on the Finance Committee’s “Report on preventative spending”. I call A...
Andrew Welsh (Angus) (SNP)
SNP
This will be one of the last speeches that I will make as an MSP, and it is my final scheduled contribution as convener of the Parliament’s Finance Committee...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Lab
I know that the debate is supposed to be consensual, but will Andrew Welsh comment on the abolition of the health in pregnancy grant?
Andrew Welsh
SNP
Such questions are better posed elsewhere. I am relaying to Parliament a positive report, rather than the usual negativity that is produced in debates. I say...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney)
SNP
Mr Welsh said that this was his last scheduled appearance in a parliamentary debate as convener of the Finance Committee. As finance secretary, I am always a...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD)
LD
I heartily endorse the cabinet secretary’s comments, but does he recognise that the committee found it difficult to establish what baseline information on ou...
John Swinney
SNP
Mr Purvis goes on to fascinating and complex ground in all of these areas. With Scotland performs, we have tried to identify a set of indicators that will pr...
David Whitton (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to speak for Labour in support of the Finance Committee’s report. I associate myself with the remarks of the cabinet secretary on our convener, ...
Derek Brownlee (South of Scotland) (Con)
Con
I thank the committee clerks, and the witnesses who gave evidence to the inquiry. I also thank Andrew Welsh for his time as convener of the Finance Committee...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD)
LD
This is an important debate, which is why I am particularly sorry that I will have to leave before the end of it, as I have a meeting regarding my constituen...
Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
As a member of the Finance Committee, I, too, was very pleased to take evidence in the inquiry into preventative spend and to help to compile the report.Ther...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
I start by paying tribute to Andrew Welsh for chairing the Finance Committee in a model, non-partisan way for the past four years, and for the contribution t...
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee West) (SNP)
SNP
I associate myself with the words of tribute for our convener, Andrew Welsh. As Malcolm Chisholm said, Andrew has always convened the finance committee in an...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
I trust that I will not change the tone of the debate too much.I am grateful to have the opportunity to contribute to the debate. As the first person to spea...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD)
LD
As a non-member of the Finance Committee, I thank Andrew Welsh for his contribution to the Parliament, and the committee for its very useful report.The commi...
Jamie Hepburn (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I congratulate the committee on its work on this report. I am not on the committee and have not been intimately involved in the process, but even a rudimenta...
Linda Fabiani
SNP
Not that many.
Jamie Hepburn
SNP
It seems plenty to me. I also gently point out that Mr Welsh had represented Angus for five years before I was born, although I am not sure whether he will t...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Lab
I do not often get excited by the work of the Finance Committee, important though it is. However, its report on preventative spending is excellent, and I com...
Ross Finnie (West of Scotland) (LD)
LD
The debate has been interesting and, by and large, consensual. Like several members who have spoken, but not the majority, I do not serve on the Finance Comm...
Derek Brownlee
Con
Ross Finnie raised an important point about the outcome basis. Although there has been a shift in rhetoric in Parliament about moving towards an outcome basi...
Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab)
Lab
I place on record my thanks to Andrew Welsh for his contribution to the Parliament and its workings. I also thank the Finance Committee for its report.Having...
John Swinney
SNP
It is not often that I can follow Mr Kerr in a debate and agree heartily with many of the sentiments that he has expressed. I particularly agree with his sta...
Tom McCabe (Hamilton South) (Lab)
Lab
As others have done, I acknowledge Andrew Welsh’s service. I will not repeat all the plaudits. I simply say to him that he should be proud of his public serv...