Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 03 March 2011
03 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
“Session 3 reports of the Public Audit Committee—key themes”
I was just about to mention the cabinet secretary’s reassurance to the chamber that the accuracy of cost estimating has improved. I am happy to hope and believe that that is the case, as must everyone else. I know that, as a level 3 expense, the project costs will be examined in some detail by the Parliament but after all the dry runs of the other projects that have been mentioned, which, over time, have proven to be things that we have been unable to contain, we are about to embark on the very biggest of them all and we have to know and be sure that we will exercise that responsibility effectively.
The third parliamentary session is reaching its conclusion and we are about to embark on the fourth session. I, like others, have been talking about the need for this Parliament to consider reforming itself. I believe that there are lessons to be learned from the past three sessions and that there are ways in which this Parliament might operate better. In a parallel way, the report suggests that we need to stimulate another urgent debate on the need for further public scrutiny and our ability to scrutinise public performance; to that extent, I am very grateful for it and am happy to endorse its contents.
10:09
The third parliamentary session is reaching its conclusion and we are about to embark on the fourth session. I, like others, have been talking about the need for this Parliament to consider reforming itself. I believe that there are lessons to be learned from the past three sessions and that there are ways in which this Parliament might operate better. In a parallel way, the report suggests that we need to stimulate another urgent debate on the need for further public scrutiny and our ability to scrutinise public performance; to that extent, I am very grateful for it and am happy to endorse its contents.
10:09
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-8005, in the name of Hugh Henry, on “Session 3 reports of the Public Audit Committee—key themes”.09:36
Hugh Henry (Paisley South) (Lab)
Lab
I am delighted to open the first ever debate sponsored by the Public Audit Committee of the Scottish Parliament. Since 1999, and particularly over the past f...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to debate the Public Audit Committee’s first report of 2011, on the third parliamentary session. I have listened carefully to Hugh ...
David Whitton (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the chance to be involved in the debate. The Public Audit Committee is one of the most important committees in the Parliament and its work under th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman)
Lab
I call Jackson Carlaw. Mr Carlaw, you have a tight six minutes.10:03
Jackson Carlaw (West of Scotland) (Con)
Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I hope that this will be a relatively brief contribution in any event.Like others, I begin by acknowledging the role of the Pub...
John Swinney
SNP
I sympathise entirely with the member’s point but I wonder whether, in the interests of completeness, he will also reflect on the fact that Audit Scotland wa...
Jackson Carlaw
Con
I was just about to mention the cabinet secretary’s reassurance to the chamber that the accuracy of cost estimating has improved. I am happy to hope and beli...
Nicol Stephen (Aberdeen South) (LD)
LD
The Public Audit Committee is a vital committee of our Parliament. Democracy is about more than simply the right to vote. The ability to scrutinise and chall...
Jamie Hepburn (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
As I was appointed to the Public Audit Committee only in November of last year, I was not part of many of the discussions that shaped the reports that the co...
Mr Frank McAveety (Glasgow Shettleston) (Lab)
Lab
First, I tender my apologies. A prior commitment means that, after making this speech, I have to go and meet representatives of a significant organisation in...
John Swinney
SNP
In the interests of maintaining recollections, I point out that the Government’s response to the committee comes from the permanent secretary, not from minis...
Mr McAveety
Lab
That exemplifies the difficult nuances with which we are dealing. When we have, with that understanding, probed some of those folk who have appeared at commi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
You should finish now, Mr McAveety.
Mr McAveety
Lab
I hope that the minister will reflect on those things in his response at the end of the debate.10:28
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I welcome the opportunity to take part in today’s debate. As Jackson Carlaw has indicated, the Scottish Conservatives value very highly the work of the Publi...
Jamie Hepburn
SNP
Jamie McGrigor talked about good faith. Does he accept that the Government acted with good faith to try to save the event because it already had creditors? I...
Jamie McGrigor
Con
I hardly think that the Government acted in good faith when what was going on was not transparent.The committee plays a vital role in the Parliament’s workin...
Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
Debates such as this are significant and have the potential to be very beneficial. The process of producing a report to highlight key themes that have reappe...
Jamie McGrigor
Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Anne McLaughlin
SNP
No.That said, I believe that the Public Audit Committee fulfils a vital function. I agree with Hugh Henry that the committee’s remit ought to be broadened so...
James Kelly (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in the debate and tender my apologies, because I will have to leave before the end to attend an urgent meeting on a co...
Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
I apologise to those who will speak in the closing part of the debate because I, too, have a prior engagement and will not be here. School pupils from my con...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Iain Smith
LD
I will just finish this point, then I will let the member in.I was particularly concerned that in the report on the First ScotRail passenger rail franchise t...
Willie Coffey
SNP
The member said that the recognition afforded to the committee was an indication of failures in the system, but it is not, because that is not what audit is ...
Iain Smith
LD
I think that the member misses my point, which is that the awards have come to the committee because attention was drawn to it through its persistence in pri...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
You must finish now.
Iain Smith
LD
Let me finish my sentence, Presiding Officer. It is usually years before such debts are written off by a public body; that does not happen immediately. The G...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
SNP
I will be staying for the entire debate.It has been an enormous pleasure to serve on the Parliament’s Public Audit Committee for the entire parliamentary ses...