Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 17 March 2011
17 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Private Rented Housing (Scotland) Bill
Absolutely. My view is that some kind of tribunal system may be more appropriate, certainly in some circumstances, than a case immediately going to the sheriff court. Obviously, that is a matter for wide discussion and, I believe, for action in the new session of Parliament. As Patricia Ferguson will know, Lord Gill recommended a dedicated housing court. The Government’s position—and mine personally—is that going that far is not necessarily the right way to approach the situation, but we are open to suggestions. It is important to get agreement on the issue, and we all agree that reform is required.
Bob Doris raised the issue of the recycling of revenue from fines back into Scotland. As he and others know, I have taken that issue up with the Treasury on more than one occasion. The most recent response that I received was from Justine Greening MP, deputy to Mr Shapps, the minister with responsibility for housing, who did not agree to review the position or to recycle the fine money into Scotland, so I am afraid that that will have to wait for another day.
Some other important points were made in the course of the debate. Many points were made about enforcement. I can tell the chamber—as I have informed the Local Government and Communities Committee—that there are, at present, three areas in which there is close physical joint working between the land registration teams in local authorities and the Department for Work and Pensions teams, especially those dealing with housing benefit. We have found that, through sharing data, working together and taking a joint approach in those areas, our effectiveness in catching those who are engaged in housing benefit scams and in identifying unregistered landlords has been greatly enhanced. Indeed, there is a correlation between those two groups. I would like to see that joint working between the landlord registration teams and the Department for Work and Pensions being rolled out across all local authority areas in Scotland, as it is achieving an effective implementation of landlord registration as well as dealing with those who are engaged—sometimes on a large scale—in benefit fraud. That would be a welcome development.
Mary Mulligan asked specifically about Shelter’s proposals on the short assured tenancy and on the provision of information and advice. In relation to the provision of information and advice, we are all agreed that the provision on a statutory basis of a tenants information pack containing basic information about a range of issues including fire and safety will be a major step forward both for tenants and for landlords. It is right that, once that is up and running, we should consider whether further developments are required in the provision of information and advice both in the private rented sector and more generally. We would certainly approach Shelter’s ideas with an open mind.
I will make two points on short assured tenancies. As Shelter has proposed, there is a need to consider the situation and review it. However, I emphasise that the Scottish Government will not go down the same road as the UK Government by imposing rules under which tenancies will have a possible maximum life of two years before people have to move out of their homes. We believe that that is a recipe for disaster and for social unrest and that it would be extremely damaging to family life. Therefore, although there is a need to consider reform, that must be kept within the clear parameter that the Scottish secure tenancy is safe with all of us in the Parliament.
I have enjoyed the past 15 minutes—the longest that I have ever spoken in the Scottish Parliament. I hope that I have enlightened proceedings. I thank everybody for their help in this consensual debate and look forward to passing, in the next few minutes, the fourth piece of housing legislation in the past five or six months—an achievement of which not only the Government but the Parliament can be proud. We look forward to continuing our programme of reform after the election.
Bob Doris raised the issue of the recycling of revenue from fines back into Scotland. As he and others know, I have taken that issue up with the Treasury on more than one occasion. The most recent response that I received was from Justine Greening MP, deputy to Mr Shapps, the minister with responsibility for housing, who did not agree to review the position or to recycle the fine money into Scotland, so I am afraid that that will have to wait for another day.
Some other important points were made in the course of the debate. Many points were made about enforcement. I can tell the chamber—as I have informed the Local Government and Communities Committee—that there are, at present, three areas in which there is close physical joint working between the land registration teams in local authorities and the Department for Work and Pensions teams, especially those dealing with housing benefit. We have found that, through sharing data, working together and taking a joint approach in those areas, our effectiveness in catching those who are engaged in housing benefit scams and in identifying unregistered landlords has been greatly enhanced. Indeed, there is a correlation between those two groups. I would like to see that joint working between the landlord registration teams and the Department for Work and Pensions being rolled out across all local authority areas in Scotland, as it is achieving an effective implementation of landlord registration as well as dealing with those who are engaged—sometimes on a large scale—in benefit fraud. That would be a welcome development.
Mary Mulligan asked specifically about Shelter’s proposals on the short assured tenancy and on the provision of information and advice. In relation to the provision of information and advice, we are all agreed that the provision on a statutory basis of a tenants information pack containing basic information about a range of issues including fire and safety will be a major step forward both for tenants and for landlords. It is right that, once that is up and running, we should consider whether further developments are required in the provision of information and advice both in the private rented sector and more generally. We would certainly approach Shelter’s ideas with an open mind.
I will make two points on short assured tenancies. As Shelter has proposed, there is a need to consider the situation and review it. However, I emphasise that the Scottish Government will not go down the same road as the UK Government by imposing rules under which tenancies will have a possible maximum life of two years before people have to move out of their homes. We believe that that is a recipe for disaster and for social unrest and that it would be extremely damaging to family life. Therefore, although there is a need to consider reform, that must be kept within the clear parameter that the Scottish secure tenancy is safe with all of us in the Parliament.
I have enjoyed the past 15 minutes—the longest that I have ever spoken in the Scottish Parliament. I hope that I have enlightened proceedings. I thank everybody for their help in this consensual debate and look forward to passing, in the next few minutes, the fourth piece of housing legislation in the past five or six months—an achievement of which not only the Government but the Parliament can be proud. We look forward to continuing our programme of reform after the election.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-8128, in the name of Alex Neil, on the Private Rented Housing (Scotland) Bill.15:45
The Minister for Housing and Communities (Alex Neil)
SNP
I am pleased to open the debate and to move the motion in my name.I thank the Local Government and Communities Committee for its detailed consideration of th...
Tricia Marwick (Central Fife) (SNP)
SNP
Will the minister assure the chamber that the powers that the bill establishes will force local authorities to act when private landlords do not live up to t...
Alex Neil
SNP
I agree with Tricia Marwick that enforcement is crucial. The powers are now well in place and I believe that the local authorities have the tools to do the j...
Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab)
Lab
I am sure that I am not the only one who feels a sense of achievement when we reach stage 3 of a bill, and that is especially true when one has been particul...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
The Conservatives support and will vote for the bill.Going through the process has been interesting and certain aspects of today’s procedures have been parti...
Jim Tolson (Dunfermline West) (LD)
LD
I thank my colleagues on the Local Government and Communities Committee, the committee clerks, the bill team and the minister for their hard work and dedicat...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
We now move to the open debate.16:07
Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
Sometimes it might seem to people as if we in this Parliament are navel gazing or talking only to ourselves, but nothing could be further from the truth. Thi...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab)
Lab
Although the bill is one of the last that we shall consider in this session of the Parliament, its gestation has been fairly long. Most of its provisions wer...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
It was a privilege to be a member of the committee that examined the bill. It was clear that not all local authorities have taken a vigorous approach to land...
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to make a brief contribution. In the stage 1 debate I spoke exclusively on the rogue landlord aspects of the bill, given the antiso...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
I start by saying something that I think that we all agree on: the private rented sector must become increasingly important in the provision of good-quality,...
Jim Tolson
LD
One principal element of the bill is the measures on the registration of private landlords. Alex Neil said that the bill is targeted at a minority of landlor...
Ted Brocklebank (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
In winding up for the Conservatives today, I begin what will possibly be my final contribution in this place by saying how grateful I am for the kind words o...
Alex Neil
SNP
Can the member confirm that he is registered? Laughter.
Ted Brocklebank
Con
Absolutely, as the minister will discover if he checks the register of landlords.However, there have been problems. Pauline McNeill and Patricia Ferguson all...
Mary Mulligan
Lab
I offer my best wishes to Ted Brocklebank for all that he has done, particularly today. He said that his closing speech will probably be his last contributio...
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson)
NPA
Given Patricia Ferguson’s earlier warning about what Alex Neil is capable of doing in an empty house, I am a little bit loth to let him loose on a fairly emp...
Alex Neil
SNP
I am delighted that Mary Mulligan is confident that I am going to be the minister moving the commencement order after the election.Earlier, when we were disc...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Michael Russell)
SNP
Indeed.
Alex Neil
SNP
This has been a consensual debate, with good contributions from throughout the chamber. It is appropriate that it has been consensual, because the issue that...
Bob Doris
SNP
I just want to add to the list the Home Owner and Debtor Protection (Scotland) Act 2010, under which all evictions for mortgage arrears must call in court, w...
Alex Neil
SNP
That is a good point from Mr Doris. I am always one to undersell our achievements. Laughter. The legislation is extremely important, but it is also importan...
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
Does the minister accept that the issue is not just the location of the judgment but the courts having an understanding of the effects that behaviour can hav...
Alex Neil
SNP
Absolutely. My view is that some kind of tribunal system may be more appropriate, certainly in some circumstances, than a case immediately going to the sheri...