Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 17 March 2011
17 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Private Rented Housing (Scotland) Bill
The Conservatives support and will vote for the bill.
Going through the process has been interesting and certain aspects of today’s procedures have been particularly interesting. We have before us legislation that has been arrived at through a particular route. Of course, the Conservatives opposed the last-minute introduction of landlord registration schemes in the Antisocial Behaviour etc (Scotland) Bill in 2004, because we believed that there had been no proper consultation at that time, and the provisions focused on creating good tenants rather than on improving the landlord-tenant relationship. However, we believe that progress has been made by the means that have been used. We need to ensure that the landlord registration scheme does not simply become a tax on landlords who provide good accommodation and service, but eliminates bad practice from the sector. Again, we have made significant progress on that today.
As the minister said, at stage 2 David McLetchie took the opportunity to lodge amendments that amended the Land Tenure Reform (Scotland) Act 1974 in relation to the 20-year rule—that is, the restriction on residential leases of more than 20 years and the right to redeem heritable securities after 20 years. The approach will allow ministers, by order, to prescribe bodies for whom the rules are relaxed, which is a vital step forward in the provision of effective housing.
HMO licensing became central to our consideration at stage 2, as it was at stage 3. I apologise for frightening a few horses at stage 2. In a discussion with Ted Brocklebank, I had agreed to ensure that HMO density was properly discussed at stage 2, so I lodged an amendment that was designed to ensure that the matter was discussed. My objective was not to require planning permission for all HMOs but to get the issue on the agenda. I apologise to anyone whom I frightened—I replied to their e-mails.
The objective was achieved. I withdrew the amendment that I had lodged at stage 2 and, after negotiation, Ted Brocklebank was able to lodge amendment 15 at stage 3. The amendment’s being agreed to has resulted in a change to the bill that I hope will deal with the problem that Ted Brocklebank identified in St Andrews, which I know exists and requires to be addressed in other areas of Scotland.
Today’s proceedings have been particularly interesting. During the past few days, the Parliament has considered a number of bills at stage 3 and very few amendments have come to a vote. We voted on an amendment today only to discover that it had been agreed to with 119 votes for and none against. I congratulate Pauline McNeill, who moved the unopposed amendment 1, and Ted Brocklebank, on their clever and astute political activity in recent days. The outcome demonstrates that if a person has experience of parliamentary procedure and works the system to their advantage, they can get their way—even if many members were surprised at just how close to the wire the voting went.
I pay tribute to Ted Brocklebank and hope that amendment 15 will serve as a memorial to his time in the Parliament. It will not be the only one; he has contributed a great deal during his time here, particularly on fisheries, his knowledge of which was valuable to us.
I say to all members who, like me, have dragged themselves around various housing organisations in recent weeks to do pre-election hustings, that many people out there think that we spend all our time fighting and arguing. My experience in the Local Government and Communities Committee, my experience during the passage of several bills in recent months and my experience of working with the minister indicate to me that, although we might have different ideas, we have the same objective. I hope that that will continue in the next session of the Parliament.
16:03
Going through the process has been interesting and certain aspects of today’s procedures have been particularly interesting. We have before us legislation that has been arrived at through a particular route. Of course, the Conservatives opposed the last-minute introduction of landlord registration schemes in the Antisocial Behaviour etc (Scotland) Bill in 2004, because we believed that there had been no proper consultation at that time, and the provisions focused on creating good tenants rather than on improving the landlord-tenant relationship. However, we believe that progress has been made by the means that have been used. We need to ensure that the landlord registration scheme does not simply become a tax on landlords who provide good accommodation and service, but eliminates bad practice from the sector. Again, we have made significant progress on that today.
As the minister said, at stage 2 David McLetchie took the opportunity to lodge amendments that amended the Land Tenure Reform (Scotland) Act 1974 in relation to the 20-year rule—that is, the restriction on residential leases of more than 20 years and the right to redeem heritable securities after 20 years. The approach will allow ministers, by order, to prescribe bodies for whom the rules are relaxed, which is a vital step forward in the provision of effective housing.
HMO licensing became central to our consideration at stage 2, as it was at stage 3. I apologise for frightening a few horses at stage 2. In a discussion with Ted Brocklebank, I had agreed to ensure that HMO density was properly discussed at stage 2, so I lodged an amendment that was designed to ensure that the matter was discussed. My objective was not to require planning permission for all HMOs but to get the issue on the agenda. I apologise to anyone whom I frightened—I replied to their e-mails.
The objective was achieved. I withdrew the amendment that I had lodged at stage 2 and, after negotiation, Ted Brocklebank was able to lodge amendment 15 at stage 3. The amendment’s being agreed to has resulted in a change to the bill that I hope will deal with the problem that Ted Brocklebank identified in St Andrews, which I know exists and requires to be addressed in other areas of Scotland.
Today’s proceedings have been particularly interesting. During the past few days, the Parliament has considered a number of bills at stage 3 and very few amendments have come to a vote. We voted on an amendment today only to discover that it had been agreed to with 119 votes for and none against. I congratulate Pauline McNeill, who moved the unopposed amendment 1, and Ted Brocklebank, on their clever and astute political activity in recent days. The outcome demonstrates that if a person has experience of parliamentary procedure and works the system to their advantage, they can get their way—even if many members were surprised at just how close to the wire the voting went.
I pay tribute to Ted Brocklebank and hope that amendment 15 will serve as a memorial to his time in the Parliament. It will not be the only one; he has contributed a great deal during his time here, particularly on fisheries, his knowledge of which was valuable to us.
I say to all members who, like me, have dragged themselves around various housing organisations in recent weeks to do pre-election hustings, that many people out there think that we spend all our time fighting and arguing. My experience in the Local Government and Communities Committee, my experience during the passage of several bills in recent months and my experience of working with the minister indicate to me that, although we might have different ideas, we have the same objective. I hope that that will continue in the next session of the Parliament.
16:03
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-8128, in the name of Alex Neil, on the Private Rented Housing (Scotland) Bill.15:45
The Minister for Housing and Communities (Alex Neil)
SNP
I am pleased to open the debate and to move the motion in my name.I thank the Local Government and Communities Committee for its detailed consideration of th...
Tricia Marwick (Central Fife) (SNP)
SNP
Will the minister assure the chamber that the powers that the bill establishes will force local authorities to act when private landlords do not live up to t...
Alex Neil
SNP
I agree with Tricia Marwick that enforcement is crucial. The powers are now well in place and I believe that the local authorities have the tools to do the j...
Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab)
Lab
I am sure that I am not the only one who feels a sense of achievement when we reach stage 3 of a bill, and that is especially true when one has been particul...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
The Conservatives support and will vote for the bill.Going through the process has been interesting and certain aspects of today’s procedures have been parti...
Jim Tolson (Dunfermline West) (LD)
LD
I thank my colleagues on the Local Government and Communities Committee, the committee clerks, the bill team and the minister for their hard work and dedicat...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
We now move to the open debate.16:07
Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
Sometimes it might seem to people as if we in this Parliament are navel gazing or talking only to ourselves, but nothing could be further from the truth. Thi...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab)
Lab
Although the bill is one of the last that we shall consider in this session of the Parliament, its gestation has been fairly long. Most of its provisions wer...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
It was a privilege to be a member of the committee that examined the bill. It was clear that not all local authorities have taken a vigorous approach to land...
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to make a brief contribution. In the stage 1 debate I spoke exclusively on the rogue landlord aspects of the bill, given the antiso...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
I start by saying something that I think that we all agree on: the private rented sector must become increasingly important in the provision of good-quality,...
Jim Tolson
LD
One principal element of the bill is the measures on the registration of private landlords. Alex Neil said that the bill is targeted at a minority of landlor...
Ted Brocklebank (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
In winding up for the Conservatives today, I begin what will possibly be my final contribution in this place by saying how grateful I am for the kind words o...
Alex Neil
SNP
Can the member confirm that he is registered? Laughter.
Ted Brocklebank
Con
Absolutely, as the minister will discover if he checks the register of landlords.However, there have been problems. Pauline McNeill and Patricia Ferguson all...
Mary Mulligan
Lab
I offer my best wishes to Ted Brocklebank for all that he has done, particularly today. He said that his closing speech will probably be his last contributio...
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson)
NPA
Given Patricia Ferguson’s earlier warning about what Alex Neil is capable of doing in an empty house, I am a little bit loth to let him loose on a fairly emp...
Alex Neil
SNP
I am delighted that Mary Mulligan is confident that I am going to be the minister moving the commencement order after the election.Earlier, when we were disc...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Michael Russell)
SNP
Indeed.
Alex Neil
SNP
This has been a consensual debate, with good contributions from throughout the chamber. It is appropriate that it has been consensual, because the issue that...
Bob Doris
SNP
I just want to add to the list the Home Owner and Debtor Protection (Scotland) Act 2010, under which all evictions for mortgage arrears must call in court, w...
Alex Neil
SNP
That is a good point from Mr Doris. I am always one to undersell our achievements. Laughter. The legislation is extremely important, but it is also importan...
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
Does the minister accept that the issue is not just the location of the judgment but the courts having an understanding of the effects that behaviour can hav...
Alex Neil
SNP
Absolutely. My view is that some kind of tribunal system may be more appropriate, certainly in some circumstances, than a case immediately going to the sheri...