Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 17 March 2011
17 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Bus Services Regulation
I thank Jackson Carlaw for his comments, as I have seldom had so many compliments in one speech. However, for the record, I am more of a Cliff Richard girl than a Mick Jagger one.
When I was growing up in the rural Borders, a car was a luxury that few could afford and, as a family with only one wage, we certainly could not. For us, the bus was the only way to get from A to B. To get to the now closed Peel hospital, the Woolies at Hawick where we could buy records—yes, I remember them—down to Kelso for the rugby or, for a real adventure, to take a trip up to Edinburgh, we had to go by bus. That was 30 years ago. In the intervening period, car ownership has become affordable for many. However, with bus deregulation, in constituencies such as mine, the car has become a necessity for many and something that they have to keep even when common sense tells them to get rid of it.
Rising fuel prices impact hardest on rural communities and harder still on the poorest families. Many families are seriously considering giving up their car. They will not forget that, two weeks ago, you lot in the other parties voted not to reduce VAT on fuel. That would have been a practical measure that could have put money into those people’s pockets this week and next, but there we go—a press release is far more important than practical help.
We cannot get away from the fact that many families never had a car to give up. My mother and thousands like her do not drive and, even if they did, they would not have the independent means to run a car. Their ability to have what members have and what we call a normal life—going to the shops, getting a job, going to hospital or college or just going out for a meal—is dictated by the availability of a bus. Few members know what it is like not to be able to do something simply because they do not have the ability to get there. The reality for many people in cities, towns and villages throughout Scotland is all too simple: the bus simply does not come to them or it stops too early in the evening or does not run at weekends. Those are the facts.
Take the young man living in Forth whom I met early in my time as an MSP. His ability to get a job was hampered because he could not get to work early enough in the morning and he could not take a job with a late shift because he could not get home late in the evening. That was because the buses did not run at those times. An elderly constituent of mine who has been married for 50 years and whose wife is in hospital cannot visit her because the bus does not run in the evening. That is no way of life for people.
Only in February, in the wonderful new world that the minister has created, a service that took an adult constituent of mine with learning difficulties to their supported employment was withdrawn at the stroke of a pen. That is the real world and those are real situations. Jackson Carlaw might not understand it—but then, the Tories got one out of 50-whatever-it-was in the previous election. They must do better in the next electoral test, but I doubt that they will.
Charlie Gordon pointed out that, yes, on some routes people are almost overrun with buses. One route in my area has three companies racing one another up and down the road. I welcome the inquiry by the Competition Commission, but in itself the inquiry is not good enough. The communities that I represent tell me that they want the Parliament to do more and to stop passing the buck to everyone else. When buses are removed without proper notice, it is the ordinary man and woman in the street who suffer. They are the ones who are left without the means to get to their work, to their shops and to their colleges.
As I have said, FirstBus has already withdrawn a particular service. The SNP is always keen to jump up and down; indeed, when the service was withdrawn, Aileen Campbell said in the Carluke Gazette:
“Provision of bus services should be more than just ... what’s profitable.”
I could not agree more. That is why I supported Charlie Gordon’s member’s bill. That is what it was about. If Aileen Campbell and her like on the SNP benches had supported it too, we would have been in a place to deliver the quality bus service that the people whom I represent want.
I know that the Tories do not support bus reregulation; they do not use buses, and they do not represent the kind of communities that I do. The more times that Jackson Carlaw mentions Margaret Thatcher, the more votes he racks up for the Labour Party. So bring it on. As long as he keeps reminding people of the kind of Scotland that she delivered, we will keep supporting him.
The Liberal Democrats do not believe in anything very much now, but it is the SNP that really surprises me. I was at a loss to understand why the SNP did not support Charlie Gordon’s bill. Was it just another broken promise like the ones on class sizes, a referendum, a local income tax, cancelling student debt, or the home-owner loan? No, it was far more sinister. The truth is out there now. The truth is that the SNP has 500,000 reasons for not supporting bus reregulation; it has 500,000 reasons for not supporting the poorest and most isolated people in Scotland. There are clear dividing lines in this election. I will stand up for the poor and for my constituents; the SNP will stand up for the people who fund its election campaign.
09:57
When I was growing up in the rural Borders, a car was a luxury that few could afford and, as a family with only one wage, we certainly could not. For us, the bus was the only way to get from A to B. To get to the now closed Peel hospital, the Woolies at Hawick where we could buy records—yes, I remember them—down to Kelso for the rugby or, for a real adventure, to take a trip up to Edinburgh, we had to go by bus. That was 30 years ago. In the intervening period, car ownership has become affordable for many. However, with bus deregulation, in constituencies such as mine, the car has become a necessity for many and something that they have to keep even when common sense tells them to get rid of it.
Rising fuel prices impact hardest on rural communities and harder still on the poorest families. Many families are seriously considering giving up their car. They will not forget that, two weeks ago, you lot in the other parties voted not to reduce VAT on fuel. That would have been a practical measure that could have put money into those people’s pockets this week and next, but there we go—a press release is far more important than practical help.
We cannot get away from the fact that many families never had a car to give up. My mother and thousands like her do not drive and, even if they did, they would not have the independent means to run a car. Their ability to have what members have and what we call a normal life—going to the shops, getting a job, going to hospital or college or just going out for a meal—is dictated by the availability of a bus. Few members know what it is like not to be able to do something simply because they do not have the ability to get there. The reality for many people in cities, towns and villages throughout Scotland is all too simple: the bus simply does not come to them or it stops too early in the evening or does not run at weekends. Those are the facts.
Take the young man living in Forth whom I met early in my time as an MSP. His ability to get a job was hampered because he could not get to work early enough in the morning and he could not take a job with a late shift because he could not get home late in the evening. That was because the buses did not run at those times. An elderly constituent of mine who has been married for 50 years and whose wife is in hospital cannot visit her because the bus does not run in the evening. That is no way of life for people.
Only in February, in the wonderful new world that the minister has created, a service that took an adult constituent of mine with learning difficulties to their supported employment was withdrawn at the stroke of a pen. That is the real world and those are real situations. Jackson Carlaw might not understand it—but then, the Tories got one out of 50-whatever-it-was in the previous election. They must do better in the next electoral test, but I doubt that they will.
Charlie Gordon pointed out that, yes, on some routes people are almost overrun with buses. One route in my area has three companies racing one another up and down the road. I welcome the inquiry by the Competition Commission, but in itself the inquiry is not good enough. The communities that I represent tell me that they want the Parliament to do more and to stop passing the buck to everyone else. When buses are removed without proper notice, it is the ordinary man and woman in the street who suffer. They are the ones who are left without the means to get to their work, to their shops and to their colleges.
As I have said, FirstBus has already withdrawn a particular service. The SNP is always keen to jump up and down; indeed, when the service was withdrawn, Aileen Campbell said in the Carluke Gazette:
“Provision of bus services should be more than just ... what’s profitable.”
I could not agree more. That is why I supported Charlie Gordon’s member’s bill. That is what it was about. If Aileen Campbell and her like on the SNP benches had supported it too, we would have been in a place to deliver the quality bus service that the people whom I represent want.
I know that the Tories do not support bus reregulation; they do not use buses, and they do not represent the kind of communities that I do. The more times that Jackson Carlaw mentions Margaret Thatcher, the more votes he racks up for the Labour Party. So bring it on. As long as he keeps reminding people of the kind of Scotland that she delivered, we will keep supporting him.
The Liberal Democrats do not believe in anything very much now, but it is the SNP that really surprises me. I was at a loss to understand why the SNP did not support Charlie Gordon’s bill. Was it just another broken promise like the ones on class sizes, a referendum, a local income tax, cancelling student debt, or the home-owner loan? No, it was far more sinister. The truth is out there now. The truth is that the SNP has 500,000 reasons for not supporting bus reregulation; it has 500,000 reasons for not supporting the poorest and most isolated people in Scotland. There are clear dividing lines in this election. I will stand up for the poor and for my constituents; the SNP will stand up for the people who fund its election campaign.
09:57
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson)
NPA
Good morning. The first item of business this morning is a Labour Party debate on motion S3M-8177, in the name of Charlie Gordon, on transport.09:15
Charlie Gordon (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab)
Lab
Our previous full-scale debate on local bus services was way back on 12 June 2008. That is not to say that Labour has not campaigned relentlessly before and ...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
I am intrigued by Charlie Gordon’s direction of travel. He complains about market failure, but he seems to be suggesting that he is looking for market monopo...
Charlie Gordon
Lab
Not for the first time, Mr Brown is wrong. If he listens for a bit longer, he will learn.The traffic commissioner continued:“Thus, Edinburgh has Lothian Bus ...
The Minister for Transport and Infrastructure (Keith Brown)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Charlie Gordon
Lab
I am sorry, but I do not have time: maybe later. I pressed Mr Swinney at that meeting by asking:“Are you now saying that the deal that was done”—that was the...
The Minister for Transport and Infrastructure (Keith Brown)
SNP
Today’s debate provides a timely opportunity to discuss the bus industry, assess its current status and consider what improvements can be made to ensure the ...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab)
Lab
What?
Keith Brown
SNP
It is on record.Earlier this year, we agreed changes to the reimbursement rate with the Confederation of Passenger Transport that make the scheme more sustai...
Jackson Carlaw (West of Scotland) (Con)
Con
I was intrigued when news filtered out that Labour was to set aside the whole of this morning’s debate—the last major debate of this parliamentary session—fo...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
Will the member give way?
Jackson Carlaw
Con
I do not think that I will, today.Scotland’s bus industry is an important private sector contributor to our gross domestic product at a time when there is ar...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
As Jackson Carlaw said, we have been here before. It is a bit like groundhog day.Charlie Gordon has revisited a proposal that he knows has no majority suppor...
Keith Brown
SNP
Does Alison McInnes acknowledge that the bus route development scheme was not abolished, but was given to local authorities and mainstreamed into their funding?
Alison McInnes
LD
It has been disaggregated to the point at which it is of little value to anyone. It is not enough to roll out new services and it has not been used in that w...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab)
Lab
I thank Jackson Carlaw for his comments, as I have seldom had so many compliments in one speech. However, for the record, I am more of a Cliff Richard girl t...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)
SNP
Let me declare a personal interest in the debate: I am a bus card holder. I note that the only bus card holders who are likely to participate in the debate a...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Lab
The issue of transport, and in particular buses, is extremely important to people in my constituency and in similar communities throughout Scotland that rely...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
Will Elaine Smith take an intervention?
Elaine Smith
Lab
No, thank you—Stewart Stevenson had the opportunity as a minister to put guards on the trains.In a transport debate, I cannot miss the opportunity to mention...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
Order. I hope that Elaine Smith will return to buses, which seem to me to be the subject of the motion.
Elaine Smith
Lab
I certainly will, but we need to consider transport in the round to see how important buses are.The number of trains from Coatbridge to Edinburgh on the new ...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
For the avoidance of doubt, the question of bus regulation was not ever in the SNP manifesto.In the debate, we are trying to look forward to find ways to ens...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
I am grateful to Charlie Gordon for focusing on bus travel in the last party debate before the election. However, as I said in an intervention, there is a co...
Charlie Gordon
Lab
I cited the transport commissioner, who described most of the bus scene in Scotland as a monopoly and near-monopoly city and county arrangement. Does the mem...
Robert Brown
LD
No, I am trying to put the issue into context and to explain the deficiency at the heart of the member’s proposition.I will say a little more about Glasgow. ...
Keith Brown
SNP
Could Robert Brown explain how his party’s policy of doing away with concessionary travel support will help more women to use the buses?
Robert Brown
LD
Perhaps the minister should read the policy. We have certainly said that there is a need to consider whether people such as me are entitled—as Stewart Steven...
Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab)
Lab
A fortnight ago, we had a by-election in Clydebank—in the Duntocher, Faifley and Hardgate ward. The key issue in that by-election was buses, specifically the...
Christopher Harvie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP)
SNP
I declare that I am president of the Scottish Association for Public Transport, which has provided a memo for members setting out a useful range of pragmatic...