Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 10 March 2011
10 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Local Services
Well, the matters are on-going. Additional evidence was produced by Karyn McCluskey and, indeed, by Deputy Chief Constable Steve Allen of Lothian and Borders Police. Some might not have liked what they came back with, but evidence was produced by them and put in. We recognise that there has to be significant drilling down, which is continuing at the moment. That information will be made available; it was made available to the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland and it will be provided further in due course. There is an acceptance that the open consultation is continuing, that matters require to be clarified and that we have to overcome the doubts.
If there is to be a regional model, those who support that approach must square the circle. Would Moray be in Northern Constabulary, Grampian Police or both? What would the boundaries be? How would we ensure better accountability for Fife and Dumfries and Galloway? How would a board monitor various matters? Where would the Scottish Police Services Authority stand in relation to a regional model of four? Equally, there are questions about a single force that have to be answered—that is a valid point.
There is a broad consensus, among all apart from the Liberal Democrats, that reform is essential to ensure that structures that were created more than 35 years ago—before unitary councils and community planning partnerships, before the Scottish Parliament, and before some of today’s policing and fire problems even existed—are fit for the 21st century and for the financial challenges ahead.
If there is to be a regional model, those who support that approach must square the circle. Would Moray be in Northern Constabulary, Grampian Police or both? What would the boundaries be? How would we ensure better accountability for Fife and Dumfries and Galloway? How would a board monitor various matters? Where would the Scottish Police Services Authority stand in relation to a regional model of four? Equally, there are questions about a single force that have to be answered—that is a valid point.
There is a broad consensus, among all apart from the Liberal Democrats, that reform is essential to ensure that structures that were created more than 35 years ago—before unitary councils and community planning partnerships, before the Scottish Parliament, and before some of today’s policing and fire problems even existed—are fit for the 21st century and for the financial challenges ahead.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson)
NPA
Good morning. The first item of business is a Scottish Liberal Democrat Party debate on local services.09:15
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
I am glad to open the last Liberal Democrat debate of the session, on local services, and I will do so by nailing our colours firmly to the mast. Liberal Dem...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Can Mr Brown tell us where the Lib Dem approach to decentralisation was when the Lib Dems, in government, scrapped the area tourist boards and brought all to...
Robert Brown
LD
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The Minister for Community Safety (Fergus Ewing)
SNP
Will Mr Brown give way?
Robert Brown
LD
If the minister does not mind, I will make a little progress.Liberal Democrats argue today that the Gadarene rush to centralise everything that moves is flaw...
Fergus Ewing
SNP
Robert Brown says that the SNP Government micromanages, but does he recall that it was the Labour-Liberal Administration that said that £6 million must be us...
Robert Brown
LD
Yes it was and yes I do, but the policy did not come from our side of the coalition.On the police proposals, we are told that three options are on the table:...
Dave Thompson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Robert Brown
LD
I am happy to give way to Dave Thompson, so that he can explain his position on the matter.
Dave Thompson
SNP
I thank the member. Does he accept that a consultation is going on? Has he read the consultation paper? Does he expect to contribute to the consultation?
Robert Brown
LD
I think that Alison McInnes dealt satisfactorily with the matter in last Thursday’s debate, when she said:“the proposals for a national police force have no ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
You can have five more minutes, Mr Brown.
Robert Brown
LD
Thank you.The consultation claims that there would be savings of between £81 million and £197 million. However, the Association of Chief Police Officers in S...
George Foulkes (Lothians) (Lab)
Lab
Will Robert Brown take an intervention?
Robert Brown
LD
Yes, all right.
George Foulkes
Lab
Robert Brown is talking about the elderly. Does he support the policy announced by Tavish Scott to cut concessionary fares for the elderly?
Robert Brown
LD
Sorry, I did not catch that. Cuts to what?
George Foulkes
Lab
At the recent party conference, Robert Brown’s party leader said that the Liberal Democrats planned to cut concessionary fares for the elderly.
Robert Brown
LD
That was not said at all. George Foulkes should follow what is said more carefully.Let us return to the SNP. At no point in the past four years, despite the ...
The Minister for Public Health and Sport (Shona Robison)
SNP
Will the member give way on that point?
Robert Brown
LD
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The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I begin by reminding members that we are currently consulting on police and fire reform, and that both consultations are founded on an approach that protects...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)
LD
In previous debates, not least the debate in the chamber last week, the cabinet secretary has made it clear that his preference is for a single force for Sco...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
I have not said that my preference is for a single force. I have said that the argument for that clearly has greater weight at the moment than the regional f...
Robert Brown
LD
Will the cabinet secretary explain to the Parliament why the consultation follows evidence gathering by the officers he mentioned rather than precedes it, wh...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Well, the matters are on-going. Additional evidence was produced by Karyn McCluskey and, indeed, by Deputy Chief Constable Steve Allen of Lothian and Borders...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
The cabinet secretary talked about community planning. Does he agree that the police and, indeed, the fire service are key members of the family of community...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Not at all. After all, once the consultation has been considered and is concluded, it will be passed to the Christie commission. There is clear acceptance th...
Jim Tolson (Dunfermline West) (LD)
LD
The cabinet secretary mentioned people coming together. Is it not already the case that all over Scotland, officers—whether in our police or our fire service...