Committee
Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee 26 January 2011
26 Jan 2011 · S3 · Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee
Item of business
Review of Teacher Education in Scotland
I thank you and your team for an excellent report. I concur with Kenny Gibson’s comments about how we deal with teachers who should not be in the classroom. One of the good things about the report is that you have focused not just on the people at that end of the spectrum and the people who are in teacher training but on the blob in the middle—the people who are just bumbling along. We discussed the issue at a recent conference. I am talking about the average teacher, who thinks that once they have had five years in the profession, they no longer have to think much about how they teach because they know what they are doing. How do we ensure that individual teachers in that part of the profession are getting the right kind of CPD, and how do we assess whether that CPD is producing the right outcomes?
In the same item of business
The Convener (Karen Whitefield)
Lab
Good morning. I open the third meeting in 2011 of the Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee. I remind all those present that mobile phones and o...
Graham Donaldson (Review of Teacher Education in Scotland)
First, I thank the committee for taking the time to consider the report “Teaching Scotland’s Future: Report of a review of teacher education in Scotland”. It...
The Convener
Lab
Thank you. I am sure that a number of members will want to ask questions, but I will start. The report has a section on ensuring that we get the right people...
Graham Donaldson
That is starting with a tricky question. The report looks directly at entry to the profession in terms of both how we ensure that the right people are being ...
The Convener
Lab
It was a helpful answer, too. I am sure that it will lead to lots of questions.
Elizabeth Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Good morning, Mr Donaldson. You have done a first-class job in this report—not only in the way in which it has been presented, but in the way in which you ha...
Graham Donaldson
In recent years, we have been fortunate in Scotland in that we have not had major supply questions in relation to teaching, but that has reinforced the situa...
Elizabeth Smith
Con
You raise an interesting point. You are absolutely right: we must have rigour, and I strongly defend the GTC with regard to the process. It is absolutely rig...
Graham Donaldson
In principle, I agree with that. Of those who are engaged in helping young people to learn, the core will remain the body of the teaching profession itself. ...
Elizabeth Smith
Con
I have a further question, which I hope is relatively simple. When it comes to improving outcomes, what—among all your 50 recommendations—should we emphasise?
Graham Donaldson
The key is how we test what matters: we should always test by asking what impact something will have on children’s learning.Education can sometimes become a ...
Elizabeth Smith
Con
Indeed.
Alasdair Allan (Western Isles) (SNP)
SNP
I note your emphasis on literacy among teachers. My colleague and I were comparing notes—I should not laugh—on teachers we had who had literacy problems. Is ...
Graham Donaldson
That is extremely hard to quantify. My recommendation would give us the evidence. We would have a much better handle on the problem if we had better assessme...
Alasdair Allan
SNP
Did a picture emerge of intervention where there are problems? If there are problems with literacy, is something happening to address them? I know that you w...
Graham Donaldson
No, intervention is not the norm; it is variable. I asked that question of staff in universities. Some said that they regarded it as being important and that...
Graeme Logan (Review of Teacher Education in Scotland)
I echo that. The diagnostic approach seems to be the effective way forward. In some other countries that have literacy and numeracy tests, it is a case of pa...
Alasdair Allan
SNP
I am thinking primarily of English teachers and primary teachers for my next point. I understand that, in most countries around Europe, a teacher is defined ...
Graham Donaldson
As Graeme Logan said, what we define as being relevant to literacy in a teacher needs to be discussed. I did not attempt to deal with that in the report, but...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
SNP
I am a bit shocked to hear that we expect teachers to be above average for literacy and numeracy; I expect them to be well above average, although that is no...
Graham Donaldson
Your questions have two aspects—one is relevant to the remit that I was given and the other is not. I have views on that other issue, but it is not part of t...
Kenneth Gibson
SNP
I think that my point follows on from your report. A lot of your report is about recommendations on literacy and numeracy, quality, training and so on, but s...
Graham Donaldson
You are setting up a straw man there. Obviously, somebody who is manifestly incompetent ought not to be teaching. I absolutely agree with that. We need to se...
Christina McKelvie (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
That leads on quite nicely to my question, because Kenny Gibson’s question on the role of the teacher in leading their own learning is where I want to go. Yo...
Graham Donaldson
The General Teaching Council for Scotland has responsibility for accrediting courses in initial teacher education. Nobody has any insight into what happens t...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
The structure that we have for kids in schools at the moment involves learning communities. You are talking about extending that so that the teaching profess...
Graham Donaldson
The trick is to get much better flow than exists at the moment. Really good things are happening here and there across Scotland—in the 32 authorities, the se...
Christina McKelvie
SNP
It is quite an exciting world out there.In your opening remarks you talked about all the good things that are going on in Scottish education and you asked wh...
Graham Donaldson
That is a powerful hypothesis. As an inspector, I have to be careful and say that nothing is automatic. At the end of the day, what matters is how we do it. ...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD)
LD
I thank you and your team for an excellent report. I concur with Kenny Gibson’s comments about how we deal with teachers who should not be in the classroom. ...