Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 08 December 2010
08 Dec 2010 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Property Factors (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Like other members, I congratulate Patricia Ferguson on introducing her bill and getting it to stage 1. She should be commended for her hard work and diligence on a highly complex issue. I vouch for the fact that she was determined to reach the chamber today—I shared the train journey with her. The phrase “husky dogs” was mentioned a number of times, in case we could not get on that dreaded train. We are here, anyway.
The committee has provided a comprehensive analysis of the various challenges that we face in considering the bill. Patricia Ferguson has shown a mature attitude to taking on a number of those challenges, showing humility where required and ensuring that the issues will be dealt with at stage 2.
I am convinced that the bill will give consumers protection from the unscrupulous and unacceptable practices of many property factors. I understand that more than 200 factors are unregistered under the current regime, which is unacceptable.
Part 1, which deals with the registration of property factors, will require Scottish ministers to prepare and maintain a public register of all property factors. In the information age that we live in, it is perfectly reasonable to require such information to be provided on the internet. That requirement should not be seen as cumbersome; it should have been in place already. It should not be difficult to provide people with that sort of opportunity.
Part 1 will allow Scottish ministers to refuse or deregister a property factor, and to remove them from the register of factors. I welcome the inclusion of that provision in Patricia Ferguson’s bill. When we discuss the issues and challenges that we could face if we were to deregister a factor, we should take into account some of the challenges that other professions face when people have to be deregistered. I do not remember anyone advising me that we could not deregister a dentist because he had a number of clients—that is like saying that we should not challenge the very principle of whether he should be a dentist in the first place, because of the chaotic circumstances that would ensue. As part of the principle of the issue, it should be accepted that, where a factor is not performing its duties, it should not be in place. However, I appreciate the challenges of dealing with title conditions and so on, and I hope that the minister can address some of those challenges.
A further challenge is the very principle of whether to regulate. As a number of witnesses stated at committee, the feature of regulation appears in a number of professions and has done for many years. It is a proven case, and David McLetchie amplified that point. The voluntary approach has simply not worked and, as has been stated by many people in the industry—from the profession itself—the rogue factors would simply opt out of the scheme if it was voluntary. What Patricia Ferguson proposes will provide clarity for all concerned, including reputable factors in the industry. There are many such factors, but the rogue factors make it difficult to acknowledge that.
A number of members, including me, deal with cases that concern property factors. As I said, many factors try their best to provide a service, sometimes in difficult circumstances, for example when owners—often absentee landlords—show no interest in investing in their properties.
However, the issue is that there is not a level playing field. Consumers are being exposed to unscrupulous activity on the part of factors, particularly when they dispute bills. It is common for consumers to dispute invoices—I have done so many times and I am sure that many members have done likewise. A constituent of mine disputed a bill for £8 from Walker Sandford Property Management, which turned into a bill for £1,200, because of the charges for the reminder letters that were sent to him. I appreciate some of the challenges that Walker Sandford and other property managers face in collecting invoice returns, but it is unacceptable that the people whom they serve—our constituents—should be charged £15 per letter or that a bill should accumulate to more than £1,200.
I hope and am convinced that Patricia Ferguson’s bill will deal with such unacceptable practice and that the provisions on dispute resolution will ensure that there is a level playing field for everyone. I commend the bill and I hope that it will be passed at stage 3.
16:32
The committee has provided a comprehensive analysis of the various challenges that we face in considering the bill. Patricia Ferguson has shown a mature attitude to taking on a number of those challenges, showing humility where required and ensuring that the issues will be dealt with at stage 2.
I am convinced that the bill will give consumers protection from the unscrupulous and unacceptable practices of many property factors. I understand that more than 200 factors are unregistered under the current regime, which is unacceptable.
Part 1, which deals with the registration of property factors, will require Scottish ministers to prepare and maintain a public register of all property factors. In the information age that we live in, it is perfectly reasonable to require such information to be provided on the internet. That requirement should not be seen as cumbersome; it should have been in place already. It should not be difficult to provide people with that sort of opportunity.
Part 1 will allow Scottish ministers to refuse or deregister a property factor, and to remove them from the register of factors. I welcome the inclusion of that provision in Patricia Ferguson’s bill. When we discuss the issues and challenges that we could face if we were to deregister a factor, we should take into account some of the challenges that other professions face when people have to be deregistered. I do not remember anyone advising me that we could not deregister a dentist because he had a number of clients—that is like saying that we should not challenge the very principle of whether he should be a dentist in the first place, because of the chaotic circumstances that would ensue. As part of the principle of the issue, it should be accepted that, where a factor is not performing its duties, it should not be in place. However, I appreciate the challenges of dealing with title conditions and so on, and I hope that the minister can address some of those challenges.
A further challenge is the very principle of whether to regulate. As a number of witnesses stated at committee, the feature of regulation appears in a number of professions and has done for many years. It is a proven case, and David McLetchie amplified that point. The voluntary approach has simply not worked and, as has been stated by many people in the industry—from the profession itself—the rogue factors would simply opt out of the scheme if it was voluntary. What Patricia Ferguson proposes will provide clarity for all concerned, including reputable factors in the industry. There are many such factors, but the rogue factors make it difficult to acknowledge that.
A number of members, including me, deal with cases that concern property factors. As I said, many factors try their best to provide a service, sometimes in difficult circumstances, for example when owners—often absentee landlords—show no interest in investing in their properties.
However, the issue is that there is not a level playing field. Consumers are being exposed to unscrupulous activity on the part of factors, particularly when they dispute bills. It is common for consumers to dispute invoices—I have done so many times and I am sure that many members have done likewise. A constituent of mine disputed a bill for £8 from Walker Sandford Property Management, which turned into a bill for £1,200, because of the charges for the reminder letters that were sent to him. I appreciate some of the challenges that Walker Sandford and other property managers face in collecting invoice returns, but it is unacceptable that the people whom they serve—our constituents—should be charged £15 per letter or that a bill should accumulate to more than £1,200.
I hope and am convinced that Patricia Ferguson’s bill will deal with such unacceptable practice and that the provisions on dispute resolution will ensure that there is a level playing field for everyone. I commend the bill and I hope that it will be passed at stage 3.
16:32
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-7531, in the name of Patricia Ferguson, on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill. Time is fairly tight for...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased that we are debating the Local Government and Communities Committee’s stage 1 report on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill, and I would like t...
Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to be taking part in the debate as convener of the Local Government and Communities Committee. We were the lead committee that looked at Patrici...
The Minister for Housing and Communities (Alex Neil)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to debate the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill, which was introduced to the Parliament by Patricia Ferguson. The Government recogni...
Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab)
Lab
I, too, am pleased to take part in the stage 1 debate on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill. I congratulate Patricia Ferguson on getting the bill to this s...
David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con)
Con
Like other members, I congratulate Patricia Ferguson, the bill’s sponsor, on her persistence and dedication in bringing this measure to Parliament and, I mig...
Jim Tolson (Dunfermline West) (LD)
LD
The Liberal Democrats welcome the member’s bill that Patricia Ferguson has introduced and offer our congratulations to her. I also congratulate the clerks, w...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
I, too, congratulate Patricia Ferguson and thank her for introducing the bill. As one of the original signatories to the bill proposal, I am pleased to speak...
Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab)
Lab
Like other members, I congratulate Patricia Ferguson on introducing her bill and getting it to stage 1. She should be commended for her hard work and diligen...
Elizabeth Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Stage 1 is an important staging post in assessing the many issues that are the origin of the bill. I pay tribute to Patricia Ferguson for the methodical mann...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
Does Elizabeth Smith accept that clarity on the point that she has just raised might make it easier for some people to accept liability for payments, and not...
Elizabeth Smith
Con
Mr Brown makes a valid point, and I and the Conservative party in general accept it. It is a strong message in the bill.The relationship between the property...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Property Factors (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. I thank Patricia Ferguson for introducing the bill, and I thank my fel...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
Factoring is an enormous issue in the new-build flats in my constituency, albeit not in the traditional tenements, which in Edinburgh have never had factors....
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee West) (SNP)
SNP
I echo others in the chamber in congratulating Patricia Ferguson on the bill, which touches on a subject that is of great concern to many of our constituents...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
On behalf of the Liberal Democrats, I praise Patricia Ferguson for introducing the bill and for the manner in which she has done so. Although this debate wil...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
The debate that we have had today and the process that led us to it form a good example of the Parliament at its best. I only wonder why it has taken us so l...
Mary Mulligan
Lab
This has been an excellent debate in which all members have made quite heartfelt pleas for legislation. That is not always the case in this chamber.As Jim To...
Alex Neil
SNP
This debate on the principles of the bill and the issues that are to be addressed at stage 2 has been good and consensual. I congratulate Patricia Ferguson a...
David McLetchie
Con
In relation to those figures—£2,000 a case and 220 cases a year for the private rented housing panel—is the minister convinced that the panel provides value ...
Alex Neil
SNP
The reality is that it is quasi-judicial. As Mr McLetchie will know, anything that is judicial, and particularly anything that involves lawyers, can be extre...
Robert Brown
LD
Will the minister take a further brief intervention on that?
Alex Neil
SNP
Of course, from another lawyer. Are they going to declare an interest, Presiding Officer?
Robert Brown
LD
The issue is about the need to have at the end of the process an enforceable order so that everybody knows where they stand. It is a judicial process and it ...
Alex Neil
SNP
The enforceable order would be the responsibility of other authorities and not necessarily the panel or ombudsman. My point is that there are a great deal of...
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I very much welcome the content and tone of the debate. I will try to respond as best I can to the issues that members have raised. The debate has demonstrat...
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
At the recent meeting that I referred to, it seemed that a large number of people were paying 35 per cent commission to factors for their insurance.
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I would not dispute that. I have heard a variety of figures mentioned. I have also heard about what, in the trade, are loosely called gentlemen’s agreements,...