Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 28 October 2010
28 Oct 2010 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Carers and Young Carers Strategy
I am not returning to this place next May and this debate is a good example of why I will miss it—we have heard thoughtful speeches from all sides of the chamber.
Shona Robison painted a picture for us and I was delighted to hear of her commitment to protecting funding for carers in the spending review that will be upon us shortly. She pointed out the funding that is being directed towards carer training programmes. I liked her expression that it is the
“small things that make a difference”,
because that is absolutely true. I am sure that each and every one of us in our work as MSPs has discovered that that little bit of attention from a doctor—Shona Robison referred to that—or a teacher taking on board why homework has not been completed makes all the difference to the young carer.
Jackie Baillie numbered the 100,000 young carers. She said, as I did in my intervention on the minister, that it is about focusing on the outcomes, a point on which members touched again and again. It obviously struck a big chord with Linda Fabiani when Jackie Baillie mentioned the problem that others spoke about of older carers looking after people with learning difficulties. I have come to admire my constituents who take on that role. As others have said, those old people will die before the person for whom they are caring. Such people often live only with the person for whom they care and they have a peculiar form of courage that I am sure we all recognise. Jackie Baillie also asked a crucial question about what emergency planning is in place for when something happens.
Mary Scanlon welcomed the investment in telehealth. She was right to mention it and I have no doubt that more will be said about it in the future. She said that the move from children’s to adults’ services is a chasm that sometimes is not crossed as easily as we would like.
My colleague Ross Finnie was correct when he said that co-operation between health boards and local authorities is not always as we would like it to be. As members know, I have some experience of being a carer and I have come across that problem. It has got better, but there can sometimes be a gap between the health board and social work, particularly when a family member becomes a carer unexpectedly because of a medical intervention or something of that nature. When the person who has to be cared for leaves hospital, one is sometimes not too sure what happens next. Although we could fine-tune that situation, I do not decry in any way what has happened in the past.
Bob Doris was correct to warn us against short-term thinking. His exchange with Cathy Jamieson on kinship care was informative, not just to me, but I am sure to the whole chamber. It was an important point.
Mary Mulligan spoke of the involvement of carers and carers organisations in drafting the report, and that is to be welcomed. She was right when she said that it is about valuing carers. I am sure that we all get frustrated by the fact that the many people who do good work in our society do not seem to get the recognition that they deserve. I am not talking about honours, but often people could do with recognition, which could make all the difference to carers. Whether it is an old person looking after someone with learning difficulties or a young carer looking after an alcoholic or drug-addicted parent, they need to be sung to the skies.
Mary Mulligan made an important point, which Cathy Peattie echoed in her speech a few minutes ago, about the stress that carers experience. If a person is caring for someone who is wetting the bed and that happens again, or if something goes wrong and they have to deal with it, that is the time they need a drink or a fag and their blood pressure goes up. That is what respite is all about.
In his impassioned plea for real delivery, Hugh O’Donnell correctly criticised silo thinking. The point is linked to what Ross Finnie, I and others are saying about the disconnect between various services that sometimes exists.
Members would expect me to mention the huge challenge that is presented by distance and rurality. Crossroads Care has been mentioned. Crossroads in east Sutherland in my constituency may deal with people who live in very remote locations. By necessity, those carers often have to deal with issues by themselves. I am sure that many members will remember the young children from east Sutherland who came here during the first session and put on a little play in one of our old committee rooms about what it is like to look after a parent and to be ticked off for not having done one’s homework. Many of those kids live up straths and in very remote locations. I plead with the minister not to forget the challenges that rurality and distance present.
I conclude where I started. Recognition of carers and of what they can and do contribute is hugely important. I do not know whether we can encourage councils or others to do a trawl, by means of the experts on the ground, of people who are working hard; that may not cost much money. I am happy to take advice on the matter, but just giving people a certificate to say that they should be proud of what they are doing and that they are contributing to society, are doing something great and deserve the country’s thanks would be helpful.
16:07
Shona Robison painted a picture for us and I was delighted to hear of her commitment to protecting funding for carers in the spending review that will be upon us shortly. She pointed out the funding that is being directed towards carer training programmes. I liked her expression that it is the
“small things that make a difference”,
because that is absolutely true. I am sure that each and every one of us in our work as MSPs has discovered that that little bit of attention from a doctor—Shona Robison referred to that—or a teacher taking on board why homework has not been completed makes all the difference to the young carer.
Jackie Baillie numbered the 100,000 young carers. She said, as I did in my intervention on the minister, that it is about focusing on the outcomes, a point on which members touched again and again. It obviously struck a big chord with Linda Fabiani when Jackie Baillie mentioned the problem that others spoke about of older carers looking after people with learning difficulties. I have come to admire my constituents who take on that role. As others have said, those old people will die before the person for whom they are caring. Such people often live only with the person for whom they care and they have a peculiar form of courage that I am sure we all recognise. Jackie Baillie also asked a crucial question about what emergency planning is in place for when something happens.
Mary Scanlon welcomed the investment in telehealth. She was right to mention it and I have no doubt that more will be said about it in the future. She said that the move from children’s to adults’ services is a chasm that sometimes is not crossed as easily as we would like.
My colleague Ross Finnie was correct when he said that co-operation between health boards and local authorities is not always as we would like it to be. As members know, I have some experience of being a carer and I have come across that problem. It has got better, but there can sometimes be a gap between the health board and social work, particularly when a family member becomes a carer unexpectedly because of a medical intervention or something of that nature. When the person who has to be cared for leaves hospital, one is sometimes not too sure what happens next. Although we could fine-tune that situation, I do not decry in any way what has happened in the past.
Bob Doris was correct to warn us against short-term thinking. His exchange with Cathy Jamieson on kinship care was informative, not just to me, but I am sure to the whole chamber. It was an important point.
Mary Mulligan spoke of the involvement of carers and carers organisations in drafting the report, and that is to be welcomed. She was right when she said that it is about valuing carers. I am sure that we all get frustrated by the fact that the many people who do good work in our society do not seem to get the recognition that they deserve. I am not talking about honours, but often people could do with recognition, which could make all the difference to carers. Whether it is an old person looking after someone with learning difficulties or a young carer looking after an alcoholic or drug-addicted parent, they need to be sung to the skies.
Mary Mulligan made an important point, which Cathy Peattie echoed in her speech a few minutes ago, about the stress that carers experience. If a person is caring for someone who is wetting the bed and that happens again, or if something goes wrong and they have to deal with it, that is the time they need a drink or a fag and their blood pressure goes up. That is what respite is all about.
In his impassioned plea for real delivery, Hugh O’Donnell correctly criticised silo thinking. The point is linked to what Ross Finnie, I and others are saying about the disconnect between various services that sometimes exists.
Members would expect me to mention the huge challenge that is presented by distance and rurality. Crossroads Care has been mentioned. Crossroads in east Sutherland in my constituency may deal with people who live in very remote locations. By necessity, those carers often have to deal with issues by themselves. I am sure that many members will remember the young children from east Sutherland who came here during the first session and put on a little play in one of our old committee rooms about what it is like to look after a parent and to be ticked off for not having done one’s homework. Many of those kids live up straths and in very remote locations. I plead with the minister not to forget the challenges that rurality and distance present.
I conclude where I started. Recognition of carers and of what they can and do contribute is hugely important. I do not know whether we can encourage councils or others to do a trawl, by means of the experts on the ground, of people who are working hard; that may not cost much money. I am happy to take advice on the matter, but just giving people a certificate to say that they should be proud of what they are doing and that they are contributing to society, are doing something great and deserve the country’s thanks would be helpful.
16:07
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-7272, in the name of Shona Robison, on the carers and young carers strategy.14:56
The Minister for Public Health and Sport (Shona Robison)
SNP
We came into government with a strong commitment to develop a new carers strategy for Scotland. The aim was to build on the considerable progress that had be...
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
LD
Obviously, the Liberal Democrats welcome what the minister has just said, but how does she intend to audit the outcomes once the process that she describes h...
Shona Robison
SNP
There will be a robust auditing process, as there always is with the third sector. The third sector is well placed to be able to deliver innovative thinking....
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
Like the minister, I welcome this debate on carers and the publication of the carers and young carers strategy.As the minister pointed out, some 657,000 peop...
Shona Robison
SNP
I have been quite up front in saying to carer organisations that in the current economic climate, funding such an entitlement is extremely challenging. We wo...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I thank the minister for her honesty. In the context of the economic climate, perhaps we could discuss self-directed support. A commitment was made to extend...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
The previous Scottish Executive introduced a strategy for carers in 1999 to improve the information on help and support for carers; to improve local services...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
The member should conclude.
Mary Scanlon
Con
Finally, I hope that the Government will continue to support direct payments.15:23
Ross Finnie (West of Scotland) (LD)
LD
This is one among a number of the issues that are debated in this chamber for which it is self-evident that there is a broad measure of cross-party support, ...
Shona Robison
SNP
I take it from that that the member supports pooled budgets, the level of which we are negotiating at the moment. I take it that the member supports that dir...
Ross Finnie
LD
I will be happy to support it provided that I can see the mechanisms that will support it. Allocating sums of money is helpful, and it would be churlish to s...
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
Over the years, we have gradually continued to get a better picture of the job that unpaid carers do in Scotland, and of the scale of that job, and we contin...
Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the comments that Bob Doris has made and I think that it is important that we get some consensus around this issue. Does he agree that one of the w...
Bob Doris
SNP
I thank Cathy Jamieson for her comment but, although that is the outcome at the local level, the premise is completely inaccurate. Way before the kinship car...
Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to debate carers issues. I fully support the motion in the name of the Minister for Public Health and Sport, particularly the closi...
Hugh O’Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD)
LD
As always, it is a privilege to speak in a debate about carers, because they are the unsung heroes of the society in which we live. It might not sit comforta...
Bob Doris
SNP
The member is quite right in what he says about resources and, of course, we always need more, but are the resources that are spent at the local level always...
Hugh O’Donnell
LD
I have some sympathy with the member’s point. All too often, and despite the person-centred planning approach, which many members in the chamber will know ab...
Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I want to talk about a specific element of caring that Jackie Baillie touched on in her contribution: the thousands of older people who continue to care in t...
Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the carers and young carers strategy, the partnership approach to developing the strategy, and indeed the minister’s commitment to make it work. It...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I call Cathy Jamieson. She has two minutes.15:59
Cathy Jamieson (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (Lab)
Lab
I will be brief, as I have only two points to put on the record. The first is about young people who are in families where drugs and alcohol are being misuse...
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
LD
I am not returning to this place next May and this debate is a good example of why I will miss it—we have heard thoughtful speeches from all sides of the cha...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
I welcome what has been an extremely important debate on the Scottish Government’s carers and young carers strategy, which follows on from a debate on the is...
Hugh O’Donnell
LD
I note what the member says about statutory provision of services. Generally, does she agree that, if there is a strategy in any area of activity for which a...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
Absolutely—and other members have made that point. I ask the minister to confirm how the outcome-based approach will help to address the current postcode lot...
Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to make Labour’s final contribution to this debate on the carers and young carers strategies. It has been an excellent debate, with good contrib...
Shona Robison
SNP
I thank all members who took part in the debate. There were a number of positive and constructive speeches. It is clear that all parties acknowledge the impa...