Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 15 September 2010
15 Sep 2010 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Ambulance Service Call Handling
Jackie Baillie covered several issues, but I will try to respond to all of them.
In relation to the two cases that she mentioned, I am aware of the first of those, and I referred to it in my statement. However, I am not aware of the second case. If Jackie Baillie wants to provide that information to me, I will ensure that the Scottish Ambulance Service looks into the case. The Scottish Ambulance Service stands ready to discuss the detail of individual cases with any patient or their family, or any member of the Scottish Parliament on behalf of constituents.
To answer some of Jackie Baillie’s other points, I refer her back to much of what I said in my statement. I did not attempt for one minute to underplay the seriousness of the incident and I will not do so now. However, it is not the case that all three ambulance centres were disabled for the entire period that she spoke about. As I said in my statement, the entire normal system was completely disabled for a period of only 50 minutes. That is a serious situation, but Jackie Baillie should have reflected those details in some of her questions.
Jackie Baillie also asked about outcomes. As she will appreciate, I am not at liberty to go into individual patient details but, as I said, the Scottish Ambulance Service is willing to discuss details with patients or their families directly. There will always be a variety of outcomes associated with calls to which the SAS responds; that is in the nature of the work of that emergency service. The important point is the information in my statement that I have been informed by the service that the full clinical audit that it carried out on all the cases found that there were no adverse outcomes that were attributable to the delay. In other words, no outcomes would have been changed had the delay not happened. That is an important point of assurance.
Finally, Jackie Baillie raised the issue of making an announcement on 21 July. She will appreciate that the situation was not on-going; instead, it was addressed and resolved. Had it been on-going, the balance of judgment might have been different. As I said in my statement, all the detail of the investigation by the Scottish Ambulance Service will be in the report that will be made available in SPICe. I am sure that all members will take great interest in that when it is published.
In relation to the two cases that she mentioned, I am aware of the first of those, and I referred to it in my statement. However, I am not aware of the second case. If Jackie Baillie wants to provide that information to me, I will ensure that the Scottish Ambulance Service looks into the case. The Scottish Ambulance Service stands ready to discuss the detail of individual cases with any patient or their family, or any member of the Scottish Parliament on behalf of constituents.
To answer some of Jackie Baillie’s other points, I refer her back to much of what I said in my statement. I did not attempt for one minute to underplay the seriousness of the incident and I will not do so now. However, it is not the case that all three ambulance centres were disabled for the entire period that she spoke about. As I said in my statement, the entire normal system was completely disabled for a period of only 50 minutes. That is a serious situation, but Jackie Baillie should have reflected those details in some of her questions.
Jackie Baillie also asked about outcomes. As she will appreciate, I am not at liberty to go into individual patient details but, as I said, the Scottish Ambulance Service is willing to discuss details with patients or their families directly. There will always be a variety of outcomes associated with calls to which the SAS responds; that is in the nature of the work of that emergency service. The important point is the information in my statement that I have been informed by the service that the full clinical audit that it carried out on all the cases found that there were no adverse outcomes that were attributable to the delay. In other words, no outcomes would have been changed had the delay not happened. That is an important point of assurance.
Finally, Jackie Baillie raised the issue of making an announcement on 21 July. She will appreciate that the situation was not on-going; instead, it was addressed and resolved. Had it been on-going, the balance of judgment might have been different. As I said in my statement, all the detail of the investigation by the Scottish Ambulance Service will be in the report that will be made available in SPICe. I am sure that all members will take great interest in that when it is published.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson)
NPA
The next item of business is a statement by Nicola Sturgeon on Scottish Ambulance Service call handling. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Nicola Sturgeon)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to make a statement to Parliament on the telephony problems that the Scottish Ambulance Service experienced on Wednesday 21 July. I...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues that have been raised in her statement. We have no more than 20 minutes for such questions, after...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary for her statement and join her in thanking the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service and the North West Ambulance Service for thei...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
Jackie Baillie covered several issues, but I will try to respond to all of them.In relation to the two cases that she mentioned, I am aware of the first of t...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for providing advance sight of her statement. I welcome her reassurance that there were no adverse outcomes attributable to the...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
I echo Murdo Fraser’s comments about the buddy system. I said in my statement that I am grateful for the contributions of both of the other ambulance service...
Ross Finnie (West of Scotland) (LD)
LD
I, too, thank the cabinet secretary for providing an advance copy of her statement.Although we are reassured that the incident did not last for a prolonged p...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
I welcome the fact that Ross Finnie is reassured by the operation of the contingency arrangements. Yes—it is important and useful to share the Scottish Ambul...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We come to open questions. There are seven members and seven minutes; therefore, brevity is the watchword.
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
We are forewarned. Does the cabinet secretary have a timescale for the completion of BT’s review of its system resilience? Can she detail any further actions...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
I outlined in my statement some of the actions that had already been taken as a result of the BT investigation, which include the upgrade of systems and the ...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
The cabinet secretary has not really explained why she had to be asked for a statement rather than going public on this issue. The 24 duplicate calls reflect...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
All the cases have been clinically audited. As Richard Simpson will appreciate, I have given some statistics for the delays that were associated with the cal...
Michael Matheson (Falkirk West) (SNP)
SNP
The cabinet secretary outlined that there were, in the course of using the buddy system, some delays in information being passed back to the Scottish Ambulan...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
I am grateful to Michael Matheson for raising an important aspect of this matter. I am reluctant to anticipate and pre-empt the specific recommendations that...
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
LD
As we have heard, it all started in Inverness, where the system went down for nearly 14 hours. Can the cabinet secretary tell me—possibly in due course—why t...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
It is certainly not my understanding that the problem was down to old equipment. There was an issue with the systems, which is why systems upgrades have been...
Maureen Watt (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
The cabinet secretary said that the disruption spread from Inverness to Glasgow through the connection between the systems. Will the review look into whether...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
I am sure that the investigation will cover all such matters. As I said in response to Michael Matheson, it would not be helpful to pre-empt some of the inve...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
I was stunned to discover on a visit to Northern Ireland on 11 August that the serious systems failure had occurred. I am even more stunned now to discover t...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
I say to Johann Lamont in all sincerity that I reflect carefully on all such incidents and on everything that is said in the chamber by members from across t...
Nigel Don (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I am reassured because the system’s resilience was as good as it was. I am sure that that reassures the cabinet secretary, too. Will she consider reviewing t...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Please answer as briefly as you can.
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
I am happy to meet Nigel Don to discuss any concerns that he has about the operation of NHS 24. It is important to stress that NHS 24 was not affected by the...