Chamber
Plenary, 03 Feb 2000
03 Feb 2000 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Sustainable Development
Today I have found out two things—that rhetoric can be at different levels and that it can be both consensual and aggressive. The contrast between the morning and the afternoon has been interesting.
I welcome what the Minister for Transport and the Environment said and much of what Kenny MacAskill and Murray Tosh said—much of their rhetoric was important in setting the tone of how the Parliament will deal with this issue. The Liberal Democrats welcome the commitment to and continued support for sustainable development and stronger environmental policies that were secured in the partnership agreement. The Scottish Executive is doing more for the environment than previous Administrations have done, but we must not be complacent. The Conservative and SNP spokesmen have illustrated how much more we need to do. In terms of giving a push to what the Executive is doing, that is important.
The key requirements for the environment are strategic environmental assessment and freedom of information. Those issues underpin much of what has been said today, particularly Murray Tosh's request for the minutes of the ministerial working group.
It has been difficult to define sustainable development; indeed, it may be foolish even to begin to try. I share the view of Scottish Environment Link when it argues that sustainability is a concept that policy makers should understand rather than waste time in attempting to define. I know that Sylvia Jackson is conducting a study on behalf of the European Committee into the European Community's sixth environmental action plan. That is the sort of practical work that I think will help this Parliament's understanding of the area.
The question that we must pose is: "Is Scotland sustainable?" Before today's debate, I read the 1996 study carried out by Friends of the Earth and funded jointly by the Scottish Office. It estimated that Scotland would have to cut its use of non
renewable resources by 25 per cent within a decade. It suggested that we needed to address Scotland's continued reliance on fossil fuels, a point that Kenny MacAskill made—his point about renewables was also important.
As the report stated, we produce less than 10 per cent of our energy from renewable resources, whereas Denmark aims to get 100 per cent of its power from such sources by 2030. It also suggested that we needed to tackle the rate of traffic growth, which is one of the highest in Europe. Those are important themes, which encapsulate the difficulty of achieving the balance that sustainable development brings.
I have two practical points about renewables. I recently visited Scottish and Southern Energy in Perth—something that we in the Highlands and Islands still call the Hydro. The people whom I spoke to there said that an impediment to developing renewables is that, in those parts of Scotland where it is possible to generate wind and wave power, it is not possible to use the transmission capacity because that capacity simply does not exist. The electricity regulator's drive for cheaper power does not help generating companies to invest in increased capacity, nor does the regulator allow generators to create spare capacity in anticipation of renewable development. I think that the Executive has a role in changing that situation, and I urge the minister to consider that point in winding up.
Another difficulty is that the consumer may not be interested in green power; he or she wants cheap power. There is an added complication for environmentalists, who may oppose the development of renewable options such as wind farms in national scenic areas. There are competing demands and we must all be aware of them and try to work out the problems. The programme for government document, published last September, stated that the minister was committed to providing locational guidance on renewable energy development by the summer of 2000. That will be an important aspect of the debate.
My second point about renewables is this: The Herald reported on Monday that the value of glass from bottle banks is dropping to zero because the major company involved in recycling glass has found that the bottom has fallen out of the market, as the price of new glass is falling all the time. Local authorities face increasing difficulties because of such factors.
The progress that the Scottish Executive is making is important. When he winds up today, I would like the minister to outline the steps that have been taken to introduce the strategic environmental assessment in Scotland and what progress has been made. Parliament must strike a
practical balance between the increases that are needed in water quality and water charges for consumers, between increased power from renewables and the cost of electricity for consumers, and, as Robin Harper has said, between growing more organic food to satisfy consumer demand and the need for cheaper food. We must all toy with those balances and, irrespective of political boundaries, we must wrestle with those choices.
I welcome what the Minister for Transport and the Environment said and much of what Kenny MacAskill and Murray Tosh said—much of their rhetoric was important in setting the tone of how the Parliament will deal with this issue. The Liberal Democrats welcome the commitment to and continued support for sustainable development and stronger environmental policies that were secured in the partnership agreement. The Scottish Executive is doing more for the environment than previous Administrations have done, but we must not be complacent. The Conservative and SNP spokesmen have illustrated how much more we need to do. In terms of giving a push to what the Executive is doing, that is important.
The key requirements for the environment are strategic environmental assessment and freedom of information. Those issues underpin much of what has been said today, particularly Murray Tosh's request for the minutes of the ministerial working group.
It has been difficult to define sustainable development; indeed, it may be foolish even to begin to try. I share the view of Scottish Environment Link when it argues that sustainability is a concept that policy makers should understand rather than waste time in attempting to define. I know that Sylvia Jackson is conducting a study on behalf of the European Committee into the European Community's sixth environmental action plan. That is the sort of practical work that I think will help this Parliament's understanding of the area.
The question that we must pose is: "Is Scotland sustainable?" Before today's debate, I read the 1996 study carried out by Friends of the Earth and funded jointly by the Scottish Office. It estimated that Scotland would have to cut its use of non
renewable resources by 25 per cent within a decade. It suggested that we needed to address Scotland's continued reliance on fossil fuels, a point that Kenny MacAskill made—his point about renewables was also important.
As the report stated, we produce less than 10 per cent of our energy from renewable resources, whereas Denmark aims to get 100 per cent of its power from such sources by 2030. It also suggested that we needed to tackle the rate of traffic growth, which is one of the highest in Europe. Those are important themes, which encapsulate the difficulty of achieving the balance that sustainable development brings.
I have two practical points about renewables. I recently visited Scottish and Southern Energy in Perth—something that we in the Highlands and Islands still call the Hydro. The people whom I spoke to there said that an impediment to developing renewables is that, in those parts of Scotland where it is possible to generate wind and wave power, it is not possible to use the transmission capacity because that capacity simply does not exist. The electricity regulator's drive for cheaper power does not help generating companies to invest in increased capacity, nor does the regulator allow generators to create spare capacity in anticipation of renewable development. I think that the Executive has a role in changing that situation, and I urge the minister to consider that point in winding up.
Another difficulty is that the consumer may not be interested in green power; he or she wants cheap power. There is an added complication for environmentalists, who may oppose the development of renewable options such as wind farms in national scenic areas. There are competing demands and we must all be aware of them and try to work out the problems. The programme for government document, published last September, stated that the minister was committed to providing locational guidance on renewable energy development by the summer of 2000. That will be an important aspect of the debate.
My second point about renewables is this: The Herald reported on Monday that the value of glass from bottle banks is dropping to zero because the major company involved in recycling glass has found that the bottom has fallen out of the market, as the price of new glass is falling all the time. Local authorities face increasing difficulties because of such factors.
The progress that the Scottish Executive is making is important. When he winds up today, I would like the minister to outline the steps that have been taken to introduce the strategic environmental assessment in Scotland and what progress has been made. Parliament must strike a
practical balance between the increases that are needed in water quality and water charges for consumers, between increased power from renewables and the cost of electricity for consumers, and, as Robin Harper has said, between growing more organic food to satisfy consumer demand and the need for cheaper food. We must all toy with those balances and, irrespective of political boundaries, we must wrestle with those choices.
In the same item of business
The Minister for Transport and the Environment (Sarah Boyack):
Lab
Environmental and sustainable policies are at the heart of everything that our Executive stands for. In moving this motion, I want to keep sustainable develo...
Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I am grateful for the tenor and spirit of the minister's speech. It may come as a surprise to some in this chamber and elsewhere that I do not seek to take i...
Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
I thought at times during Kenny MacAskill's speech that I had strayed into time for reflection or thought for the day. In his generally consensual and constr...
Sarah Boyack:
Lab
It is my intention to communicate the thrust of what we are discussing in the ministerial group on sustainable Scotland. I am looking at how we might do that...
Mr Tosh:
Con
I thank the minister for that very positive statement, which allows us to conclude in a tone of considerable, broad agreement. We have only one, limited plan...
Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD):
LD
Today I have found out two things—that rhetoric can be at different levels and that it can be both consensual and aggressive. The contrast between the mornin...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I support the minister. One of the difficulties that I had in preparing for this debate was that the minister is making such rapid progress on all these issu...
Mr MacAskill:
SNP
Can Helen Eadie assure this chamber that fuel prices will not escalate in next month's budget? We may have to face a fuel duty escalator with a different nam...
Helen Eadie:
Lab
We have already announced modifications to the fuel duty escalator, as Kenny MacAskill knows. It will continue to be used to develop public transport, which ...
Mr Tosh:
Con
Coming to a debate on sustainability when we had heard nothing from the minister on planning issues and other issues related to development, it was impossibl...
Helen Eadie:
Lab
Thank you.The magnitude of the work that we have ahead of us is such that, despite the best will of all of us, we have to commit to it absolutely, because ne...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
The Government development strategy document states that "the overall aim of all our policies for rural Scotland is to foster and enable the sustainable deve...
Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):
Green
It is a great shame that there are not more people here for the first debate on sustainability in this Parliament. I welcome the tone and content of Sarah Bo...
Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):
Lab
If sustainable development began to rank as a key issue in the late 1990s, it is clear that, as we go into the new millennium, global survival depends on eac...
Mr John Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD):
LD
As I came in, I picked up the little booklet "Scotland the sustainable?" and one item caught my eye: "If sustainable development is so sensible, why is more ...
Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I am delighted to contribute to this important debate, which I hope—unlike many debates on subjects such as sustainable development and other environmental m...
Dr Jackson:
Lab
I inquired into why we had only just received the recycling bins and I gather that the contract had to go out to tender. I do not know whether Mr Lochhead wa...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
Thank you for that intervention. It says quite a lot about the Government's policy. This country has an abundance of natural resources, and hundreds of thous...
Sarah Boyack:
Lab
Does Mr Lochhead think that there was a problem with Westminster because it is in London, or because of the political priorities of the Government at the time?
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
Well, both. I am sure that the minister will not be surprised to know that I am about to come on to the difficulty with Westminster. Although the SNP will su...
Sarah Boyack:
Lab
Will Richard Lochhead give way?
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
No, I have already taken two interventions. Surely it would be much more productive and valuable for Scotland to have a seat at the United Nations and to pla...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Patricia Ferguson):
Lab
Before I call Maureen Macmillan, I should tell Parliament that recycling is a matter for the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body and that the Presiding Off...
Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
I thank John Farquhar Munro for his speech on transport in the Highlands. Perhaps we in the Highlands and Islands have a different perspective on sustainable...
Robin Harper:
Green
Does Maureen Macmillan agree that it is astonishing that the Executive said that the land reform bill had nothing to do with the environment? Does she think ...
Maureen Macmillan:
Lab
I am talking about sustainable development. When communities can own their own land, we will see such development. We are looking for balance. Debates in the...
Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD):
LD
The debate has been very welcome, and many members have made good, fundamental points. I was pleased to hear that the minister's priorities will be to cut wa...
Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
I am sure that the member would be as thrilled as I was on a recent visit to Shetland to see the incinerator programme there. All waste from Shetland and mos...
Euan Robson:
LD
I agree with the member. More could also be done to use recycled building waste in construction. I welcome the minister's comments on sustainable travel. She...
Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con):
Con
I had the pleasure of being the inaugural chairman of the Association of Scottish Community Councils. One of the first things that we managed to do, in consu...