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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 11 September 2019

11 Sep 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Citizens Assembly of Scotland

I am sure that every member of the Scottish Parliament will always listen attentively to what Scotland has to say. All of us as MSPs listen to and act on what we hear in our constituencies and regions, in our surgeries, and at local events. We meet and learn from individuals who bring us their worries, concerns, ideas and even their enthusiasms. All of us as legislators and members, and some of us as ministers, also hear and pay heed to national and international voices from the third sector, unions, business, those who lobby in one way or another for or against change and reform, representative groups, wider civil society, faith groups, our universities and many more organisations. We also hear the voice of Scotland every time a member contributes in a committee or a plenary session in the chamber, carrying his or her concerns, which are informed by listening and thinking. This is Scotland’s Parliament, where the representatives of the people of Scotland, elected by a fair system of proportional representation, speak on behalf of their parties and—more important—their electors.

The past few years of Brexit division show that listening is important, but they also show that we must do better. If we are to row back from the current impasse and find a way forward as a nation, we must listen to new voices and in new ways. We must turn down the volume on what divides us and turn up the volume on ways of moving forward together. To do so, we must not just listen; we must pay attention, focus and understand, and then act.

That is what the citizens assembly of Scotland is about. It is a radical act of listening. It is an intervention in a political culture that can seem more concerned with making its own point, no matter the cost, than with listening to others’ points of view.

Nobody could deny that I am a robust politician. I was schooled in a robust age of debate, and sometimes it shows. I am as guilty as anyone in the chamber of misusing language. However, the times that we are in call for other voices to be heard and for people to speak out in other ways. Formal politics is not the only way to find solutions; sometimes it may not even be the best way.

The assembly is about doing things in a different way, with a different tone, and developing a different democratic language. International experience shows that such approaches can bring new perspectives and new solutions. However, by definition, such initiatives are not about politicians. This debate marks the moment at which Scotland’s citizens assembly becomes an independent entity reaching out to make a new contribution to our country.

The citizens assembly of Scotland now has its remit, and Parliament is being invited to endorse it. It is our first national citizens assembly sponsored by Government but wholly separate from it, and its remit goes to the heart of the question that faces our country. The remit asks the assembly to consider three things:

“what kind of country we are seeking to build, how best we can overcome the challenges Scotland and the world face in the 21st century, including those arising from Brexit, and what further work should be carried out to give us the information we need to make informed choices”

about our future.

Those are broad questions, but deliberately so. The assembly will listen, deliberate and come to conclusions. It is entirely free to define what it thinks are the challenges that are faced by Scotland and the world. Within the framework that is set out in the remit and terms of reference, it will set its own agenda, put in place its own work plan and draw its own conclusions. Could that agenda take it to places that are uncomfortable for the Government? Of course. If I am prepared to accept and acknowledge that, I have to constructively ask those who still stand against the initiative: what are you worried about?

If I am open to the views of the assembly—

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-18778, in the name of Michael Russell, on the citizens assembly of Scotland. 15:11
The Cabinet Secretary for Government Business and Constitutional Relations (Michael Russell) SNP
I am sure that every member of the Scottish Parliament will always listen attentively to what Scotland has to say. All of us as MSPs listen to and act on wha...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Michael Russell SNP
I will in a moment. If I am open to the views of the assembly, surely they should be, too. Surely they are not afraid to listen.
Mike Rumbles LD
I am glad that the cabinet secretary took my intervention and that he is not afraid to listen. One of the problems is that there is a great lack of trust ab...
Michael Russell SNP
It is the lack of trust that I am seeking to address today. I will say more about the independence of the citizens assembly now. Interruption. I am sure that...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
On the subjects of trust and thinking anew, does the cabinet secretary agree with the remarks that are attributed to David Martin, one of the co-conveners of...
Michael Russell SNP
I have heard David Martin’s view on the matter. In retrospect, I can understand why people think that. I have to say, there was no intention—
Mike Rumbles LD
No intention!
Michael Russell SNP
I am trying to make a point that can be believed or not believed. There was no intention to say that the citizens assembly would be driving forward any agend...
Adam Tomkins Con
Will Michael Russell take an intervention?
Michael Russell SNP
I really must make progress—I am sorry. I think that I will not be given much extra time by the Presiding Officer. During a period when the claims of compet...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I seem to have upset Mike Russell. He is so upset that he frequently takes to social media to plead with me to talk to him. I know that it is difficult to be...
Adam Tomkins Con
Does Mr Rennie know that, earlier this afternoon, at portfolio question time, Conservative members invited the cabinet secretary, Michael Russell, to distanc...
Willie Rennie LD
I find that astonishing and difficult to believe.
Michael Russell SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. It is important that the words that I used, which will be recorded in the Official Report, are quoted. On no occasion...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Both points have been made. The Official Report can be checked later today and any member who wishes to do so can take appropriate steps.
Willie Rennie LD
Joanna Cherry seems to have created a degree of excitement, not just in the courts today, but in this chamber. I am grateful to her for giving us such clarit...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Rennie, will you move your amendment?
Willie Rennie LD
In all the excitement, I forgot to do that. I move amendment S5M-18778.1, to leave out from “welcomes” to end and insert: “regrets that the first opportuni...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I turn my attention first to the Liberal Democrat amendment, which has just been so movingly moved by Mr Rennie. We on the Conservative benches strongly agre...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I accept much of what Adam Tomkins has said about drug deaths. I was first involved in difficulties in that area in the early 1960s. Would it be helpful if a...
Adam Tomkins Con
The answer to the first part of that question is, yes, it would be helpful. It should happen, in my view, and I know what the consequences of that are. The ...
Adam Tomkins Con
I am not sure whether the cabinet secretary can shed any light on that. I will be happy to give way to him if he can.
Michael Russell SNP
Transparency will be a key issue for the citizens assembly. It will be committed to publishing its costs in full. It will do so at the appropriate moment, wh...
Adam Tomkins Con
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for that response, although he did not shed any light on the question of cost and simply said that it will be made tra...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
In opening the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour, I state our support for the principles of the citizens assembly for Scotland. I also welcome the appointm...
Mike Rumbles LD
This is about motivations. The First Minister has said that we are facing a climate emergency. Liberal Democrats made the point that the citizens assembly wo...
Alex Rowley Lab
I will certainly come on to that point. I have some experience in deliberative democracy. While I was leader of Fife Council, we held one of the first citiz...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I welcome the motion that has been brought to the chamber for debate today. The Greens have long expressed support for deliberative democracy in a range of f...